Bailiff Help

[leg01end]

Hello,
I was after some bailiff help please.

I've been served an enforcement notice by Rossendales for unpaid CT, with a £75 fee added.
I need to contact them by Monday or I get another £235 added to the account.

Is there any way I can get the council to take this debt back? I can pay but I just need some time as I have no job. Nor do i claim any benefits.

I can't work due to illness, but the hospital have said they can't help me as I can't use a CPAP machine for my sleep apnea. Which is in the severe range. I fall asleep randomly through the day with no warning.

My partner works full time, and usually we manage, but things got a bit sticky during COVID.
I want to pay the debt, but need some time without them levying more fines on me.

After budgeting I could pay what I owe over 4 monthly payments, but not with fees and pressure added to the debt.
Anyone got ny advice as to what I can do please?

[monkeynuts]

You don't have to deal with the bailiffs. Don't answer the door to them and certainly dont respond to them.

You say I in your message. Is the CT debt in your sole name or that of you and your partner? This will make a difference in your options if she is working F/T.

You also mention you are off work due to a disability. What benefits are you in receipt of?

LA's have welfare departments for circumstances such as this. Contact them and explain in detail your situation and put an offer in writing.

If you have a vehicle don't park it on your drive or public highway until the matter is sorted with the council as it may be clamped.

There is information here: https://stopthebailiffs.uk/council-tax- ... liffs.html

[leg01end]

Hello,
the CT should be in both our names, the Rossendales letter is only in my name though.
I don't claim any benefits at all. I did get ESA contributions based for a while, but then it was stopped as my wife earned too much.

[leg01end]

Would the fact I'm unemployed class me as vulnerable in the context of asking the Council to take the debt back?

[monkeynuts]

In all honesty probably not as your wife earns an income to the house and the bill and subsequently the LO will be in both your names However, there is no reason though why you can't make a written offer of repayment to the council and make a reasonable replayment play including this year's payments, to them.

Do you not claim PIP?

[leg01end]

Hi, no i don't. I won't meet the criteria for PIP because i'm not using the CPAP machine.
The hospital have wiped their hands from me.

Can i ask the bailiffs to stop action whilst I write to the council?
It's affecting my mental health thinking about them turning up. I won't engage, but worry that they may catch us off guard. My daughter has a habit of running and answering the door.

[zeke]

From your original post, you may well be a vulnerable debtor because you meet the criteria set out in paragraph 77 of the Taking Control of Goods :National Standards, published by the Ministry of Justice in 2014.

Under regulation 12 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 states:

Recovery of fees from vulnerable debtors

12. Where the debtor is a vulnerable person, the fee or fees due for the enforcement stage (or, where regulation 6 applies, the first, or first and second, enforcement stages as appropriate) and any disbursements related to that stage (or stages) are not recoverable unless the enforcement agent has, before proceeding to remove goods which have been taken into control, given the debtor an adequate opportunity to get assistance and advice in relation to the exercise of the enforcement power.





If the bailiff does not withdraw enforcement to give you adequate opportunity to get assistance and advice in relation to the exercise of the enforcement power, then the bailiff is not eligible to collect the £235 enforcement stage fee or disbursement.


Admittedly, solicitors enforce this rule in the courts when bailiffs clamp vulnerable peoples cars on the street for unpaid traffic debts (ANPR clamping). Ive seldom seen it involving unpaid council tax, but the regulations are the same irrespective of the debt type. So, in theory, it still applies to you.



That writes off any profit the bailiff makes on your case, and they will move on and leave you alone.

If you randomly fall asleep, then I would say you suffer from Narcolepsy.

That would make you incapable of mainstream employment, and thus, unemployed.

Unemployed people are also a class of vulnerable debtors in paragraph 77.



If your daughter is a child, then if she opens the door, the bailiff must not enter, and if she is under 12 then the bailiff must withdraw from the property without making enquiries. These are only guidelines, but are prescribed in paragraphs 72-73 of the Taking Control of Goods National Standards.



Going forward, you need to apply online for council tax benefit, and stop any new arrears from accumulating.

Then see what other options are open to you to stop the council tax enforcement.

https://stopthebailiffs.uk/stop-council ... ement.html






Then run this online checklist and council tax enforcement improprieties and see what other red flags are shown.

https://stopthebailiffs.uk/council-tax- ... check.html

Then let us know what the red flags are and we can show you how to put them into action.

[leg01end]

Hi,
thanks for the detailed response.
I agree over regulation 12. Do i put this in writing to Rossendales or the Council?
I don't qualify for council tax benefit I was told, due to my partner earning enough to cover us both.

I was told this by a CAB advisor.
Not many of the list apply to me. The council told me to deal with the bailiffs when i asked them to take the case back. Albeit this was before I had done research and knew about vulnerable debtors and such like.
Also i'm awaiting a response from my local councillor, to see if they can help.

I feel we will be okay going forward, we just hit a sticky patch, and if i can sort out an arrangement to pay the arrears, then it will be fine.
Oh and my daughter is 6.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I appreciate it.

[zeke]

If you want the council to take the case back into their administration, then asking them won't achieve that.

You must stop the enforcement.

This article shows what steps you can take to make the bailiff lose interest in pursuing you.

https://stopthebailiffs.uk/stop-council ... ement.html


If none of these apply to you, then the following will happen:

https://stopthebailiffs.uk/what-happens ... liffs.html

[monkeynuts]

What zeke has posted IS correct, however I will give some experience from being a welfare adviser at a national charity, where I deal direct with Local Authorities (LA) for clients for exact situations similar to yours.

As explained in the previous posts you could try and argue the vulnerable debtor but the problem you have is the CT will most likely be issued to both you and your wife and the would look at the vulnerability of the household. Should the CT be solely your debt then it is easier to argue as you would be possibly be classed as vulnerable.

If you cannot receive ESA due to the income from your wife then you are over the threshold for most state benefits (ESA, IS, HB, CTR etc) and this is what most LA's would look at initially when determining vulnerability for a household. You may make and application for CTR but if your not in receipt of ESA because of your wifes income then you may be over the threshold there, but make the application anyhow. I suspect though the the CA adviser would have gone through this with you. There are individual circumstance's where it may change but broadly speaking this would be what they look at on case by case to determine whether someone is vulnerable. It is different from LA to LA to what they may class as a vulnerable household hence you need to get through to the welfare department rather than just the CT team - the CT team will not be trained correctly for dealing with customers who may be classed as vulnerable.

Whilst the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards states what groups MAY be classed as vulnerable, the use of the word MAY leaves this at the discretion of the LA to determine. Hence you would need to prove to the LA you would be classed as vulnerable household.

In your particular circumstance the bailiff (if you stated you where vulnerable) would have to withdraw from the property and inform the LA. They would check if you are flagged as a vulnerable household on they system, if not then sometimes they are thorough and check. The enforcement action would be suspended during this time - this is when speaking with their welfare team really helps. Although most times if your not on any benefits they wouldn't deem you as a vulnerable household and let enforcement action continue.

In your circumstances, you need to identify to the council why you would be classed as a vulnerable household.

I hope this clears up the confusion and allows you to understand the working of how vulnerability and enforcement happens.

[leg01end]

Hey Monkeynuts

thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.
The reason for no CTR as well is my partner owns another property that we rent out.
Like I say, I do believe i'm vulnerable, so I will make representations to this effect anyway.
I've just applied for contributions based ESA as I believe I have enough contributions from 2019.

I am in a meeting later with my local ward councillor, so I will ask them if they can ask for it to be returned.
It's quite crazy that I want to pay, but just needed some extra time to do so.

You think the council would fall over themselves to help me with it.
Am i best trying to get a plan in place with Rossendales before Monday, then continue with my quest to have it taken back to the council? I don't want further fees added.

[monkeynuts]

Unfortunately these days anyone vulnerable is constantly overlooked - unless there is a safety issue

If you agree a plan with Rossendales it wont be a reasonable plan. It will be to the effect of .... pay us the amount as quick as we want it. I have seen agreements for people on benefits in the region 50% of there income.

If you believe your vulnerable then use this letter to place the account on hold:

Code: Select all

[name]

[address]

[bailiff company name]

[bailiff company address]

[bailiff company address]

[bailiff company address]

[bailiff company postcode]

BY PRE-PAID FIRST CLASS POST AND BY EMAIL

bailiff@company.com

[dd mmmm yyyy]


Re: Enforcement of Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) Number:[AA122341234]

Dear Sir,

Regulation 12 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 

My name is [NAME] and I write to give notice that I am a vulnerable person as defined in enforcement regulations and in several Acts of Parliament.

Please put enforcement on hold for 30 days so I can have adequate opportunity to get assistance and advice in relation to the exercise of the enforcement power and confirm in writing that you will comply with this regulation.

Regulations do not require me to give evidence of my vulnerability, I have decided not to disclose it as entitled under the Data Protection Act 2018.

In the event of a breach, the right to bring an application under CPR 84.16 and ask for my costs on the indemnity basis is expressly reserved.

Yours sincerely,

[name]

This should buy you some time to speak with the LA.

My gut feeling is that due to your household income which is what it will be based on the LA won't take it back - If you have to deal with the bailiffs to make payments then I suggest you make a very detailed income/expenditure sheet to argue the amount you can realistically pay. If you do this with Rossendales make sure a copy is sent to the LA to be placed on file.

[leg01end]

Thanks Monkeynuts

I appreciate that. You are correct about the household income, I will send the letter.

Do you think the meeting with my councillor is not worthwhile then, do they have any remit to really be able to do anything?

[monkeynuts]

Remit - not really no.

Can they ask .. yes.

The reality is, they will point to :
you have a decent household income
you have a second home as source of income

[leg01end]

Agreed, and these are things I'm not arguing over.

However, i cannot afford to pay the whole amount at once.

We have no savings etc.

Surely there has to be reasonability involved in what one can afford to pay back?
I did ask Rossendales why my wife wasn't named on the letter, and they said they don't have too. I had a feeling about their flippant attitude then.
Thanks for all your help. I will see how I get on.

[leg01end]

I'm sorry, i do have one more question.
I spoke to the council over payments I had made, and they had not been distributed how they should have been.
I actually owe more than Rossendales have put on their letter. I am up to date though now for this year.
Do Rossendales have to start the procedure again, as the wrong figures were input, or is this okay?

[monkeynuts]

I'm sorry, i do have one more question.
I spoke to the council over payments I had made, and they had not been distributed how they should have been.
I actually owe more than Rossendales have put on their letter. I am up to date though now for this year.
Do Rossendales have to start the procedure again, as the wrong figures were input, or is this okay?

Stand in Rossendales shoes.....

If you say you owe more they will be chomping at the bit!!

They can only ask for what was raised on the LO when issued. This will be stated on your CT bill. If you spoke with the LA and got details, keep that to yourself and just make sure you keep on top of it.

As for paying the bailiffs. They will always demand the payment in full. That way its easy ££ for the bailiff. However they will setup a payment plan with you but they will ask a silly amount at first hence make a full inc/exp sheet to show a reasonable amount.