help please

[bailiffsarescum]

Hi I'm having problems with Nottingham city council tax they sent 5 liability orders to equita in November 2019 after I made a offer of repayment of £15 a month while on universal credit(do have email proof ) I only get 207 a month after my rent and rent arrers and child maintenance is deducted and time I pay my utility's and bedroom tax I'm only with£50 a month to do my food shopping and that includes credit for mobile phone IV IV tried explaining to the council tax department that I'm unemployed and on universal credit and offered to submit proof of benefits and bank statement but they refusing to accept that I'm a vulnerable household and the bailiff hold is coming off the 15th

[zeke]

I am not sure why the council needs to send 5 liability orders when the one would suffice.

A liability order applies for the whole years tax arrears, so five of them suggests five different years tax is being sought.

If you are unemployed, then you are in a class of a vulnerable debtor for civil enforcement.

Paragraph 77 of the Taking Control of Goods National Standards 2014 published by the Ministry of Justice creates the classes of vulnerable people.

When you give the council a notice that you are a class of vulnerable people, then you should give evidence of your universal credit claim and award amount.

You can create a free template letter here to tell the council and the bailiff company that would be a vulnerable debtor.

https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... btors.html


If the suspension of enforcement ends on 15 Feb, then the bailiff still cannot recover the enforcement stage fee until they have given you adequate opportunity to get advice in relation to the enforcement power.

If the enforcement is causing you undue hardship or having an adverse effect on your health, or you can show the arrears will never be paid, approach your local Councillor and ask them to petition the council to write off the arrears.

This article explains more about making a petition to write off the arrears.

https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Wr ... rears.html

[bailiffsarescum]

Thanks for your reply infact its not 5years worth of council tax see attachments but at moment all I got on the council tax moment is on the total cost of liability order £20 for the Lo and £47 for their court summons and they refusing to accept that the cost of the liability order is 3quid under the magistrate court fee 2014 order 4:1 saying tha the court agreed with their fees IV offered the universal credit statement showing my award and deductions but they wont take it they want a finical statement

[zeke]

The £3 application fee for a liability order is actually under Schedule 1(5) of the Magistrates’ Courts Fees Order 2008. Nothing to do with the 2014 fee regulations.

With Nicholson vs Tottenham Magistrates’ and Haringey Council, the court said it's not practical for councils to show their actual costs in every case, but to cost it by the average of all the combined cases.

That means the council has the benefit of the economies of scale when applying for liability orders, making it unlikely that each case disbursed the council a total of £125,000 when applying for 1000 liability orders in a single session.

A later case of Ewing vs Highbury Magistrates' and Camden council quashed a liability order because the issuing magistrate did not enquire about the councils' disbursements.

If they have overcharged you for a liability order, then you can ask for evidence of the flow of money for the disbursements paid when they applied for the liability order(s). If they don't provide them, then reclaim it in the small claims track. But remember, that does not revoke the liability order(s).

[bailiffsarescum]

Thanks for the advice I submit full evidence of universal credit award would emailing them with screenshots of uc statement and payments be faster? Do I get in touch with equita informing of vulnerability and how the best way to get the council to take their part seriously has IV told em that no peaceful entry will be given in just concerned that if a bailiff enters my dog might go for em

[zeke]

Email is fine.

Just dont open the door to unexpected callers.

[monkeynuts]

As zeke says your first course of action is to not open the door and thus they cannot gain entry.

If the council are requesting for you to submit a common financial statement then it would be for your best interest, given as you have stated you have other arrears, to seek assistance in getting it done. Having a SFS can help with the existing arrears you state you have and be given to creditors to show your current financial hardship. Several debt charities will be able to assist with this.

Info on what cfs is: https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/in ... ement.aspx
Stepchange debt charity: https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/in ... ement.aspx

If you have deductions from your UC then you can request a review due to financial hardship, in some cases this can be limited to 10% of your standard allowance.

[bailiffsarescum]

Thanks for the reply Nottingham city council are refusing to accept my uc statements for proof of income I spoke to citizens advice who said that the council can recall it and do deductions from it or if they can't then they can do manual payment set up asked the council to do it and they refused to do it and phoned up equita explained that I'm vulnerable under Para 77 and refused it out right saying it a lie tried to make me pay $200 a month on universal credit said no so I replied that there be no peaceful entry and doors will be locked and they said they bring the police with em is that allowed and do the council have a duty of care oh btw I do require cpap at night due to osa what do I do know

[monkeynuts]

Simple solution and one which I am surprised the CA adviser didn't inform you of, is just as zete said, don't let the bailiffs in. Yes they will knock and attempt to intimidate you into opening the door and letting them in. Ignore this and just don't answer, you have no obligation to. The debt will eventually be passed back to the LA and from there negotiate with them paying the debt back

[bailiffsarescum]

Dont worry doors be locked no matter what but IV tried negotiating since last August before it went to equita and informing of me being in recipient of uc at same time can I ask are they allowed threaten you with police has I told em no peaceful entry door be locked can they bring the police in case of breach of peace like they said they will

[John The Baptist]

If you have told the council that you are only prepared to pay £3 for each liability order then after they have picked themselves from off the floor from fits of laughter, it would not be surprising at all to see the debt passed over to bailiffs.

The cost of the magistrates court hearing is £3 (this covers the court's admin charges). However, councils are permitted by law to charge for the work involved in obtaining the order. This includes stationery, postage, man hours, travelling to court, etc, etc. If you have look at the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992, you will see that councils are permitted to charge "reasonable costs" incurred for obtaining an order (Regulation 34(7)(b). £67 in 2020 is actually right at the bottom end of the spectrum for these costs.

Provided that you are quite comfortable ensuring that doors are locked then you should be able to sit it out for 12 months (or however long Equita remain involved)

I would write a letter to the council explaining that you do not have the money to pay for the bailiff costs (5 x £75 & 1 x £235 when they visit). Tell them that you are not refusing to pay (this nullifies any silly threats of imprisonment) and that you ask the council to contact you again once the account has been returned by Equita. At that point, you will be prepared to negotiate. However, you will be expecting the council to obtain payments via a third party deduction scheme (ie payments to be taken directly from your UC).

[bailiffsarescum]

I can sit it out I actually asked the council for 3rd party deductions before they sent it to equita and still am asking for it to be recalled for 3rd party deductions I even explained to em I can't afford bailiff fees

[outlawipcc]

HMCTS fee for each liability order is now £0.50. The MoJ said Councils overpaid by about £9m a year since 2013/14 and were entitled to be compensated in full.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44713630

Following a review of its fees system, the Ministry of Justice said it had discovered it had "inadvertently" over-charged £2.50 for each application over several years - a figure in excess of the legal costs involved in recovery