Ok this is convoluted and long, but I was a witness to that.
My daughter called me sometime ago telling me of a debt she had (it was a Magistrates Court fine) and bailiffs letters she received. We spoke on it, and I thought she took care of that...a month or so later, during my visit, two Bailiffs came to her flat (her husband as away, we were alone with the grandkids). She saw them through a peephole. She told me she was surprised to see them, because she paid the court fine directly to the Courts. I don't know, perhaps it was because of me, she didn't want to seem rude or else, and opened the door. Momentarily one of the started yelling and jammed his foot in.
The kids started crying, she tried to push him out, she started screaming that she's assaulting him (a MOUNTAIN of a man) - it was horror. She kept him off as long as she could; she called the police, Marstons, even the Court to have anyone on the phone who would say the original fine was paid and he cannot come in - but no one help her. Everyone said she has do deal with him.
She told me she (later) sent receipts around and directly to the Bailiff, and debt collectors, even phoned them to tell them its done. They all had it.
The Bailiff pretended that he "never saw such a document" and whatever she paid, he still has the right to collect money because he had the warrant.
It was terrible.
After an hour or so she literally couldn't hold him out anymore and both of them came in. They wanted money, which she didn't have. To Finally get them out of the flat I agreed to pay. The problem was, I don't live in the UK, and they had problem charging my card.
The guy wanted to take photo of the card (which we forbade him from doing). My suspicion is though, looking at how his phone was positioned, that he may have done it????
I was just struck by the fact that several times he took his phone out to film, even though he had body camera on him.
Why?
Anyways, the agreement was that I will pay the fine for my daughter at a later date. I will do that, this was a horrifying experience, but it really strikes me as irregular?
The man is now supposed to call me for the payments....I am afraid that If I won't do them, he will come back and harass my daughter again. They were SO smug as they were leaving, as if, truly, they have done it for sport.
Anyways, I don't really know what to do at the moment, because even can have such far reaching consequences for all of us. I am not sure if this man took a picture of my card, I don't know is there a redress of this situation?
Can he take the money out without me knowing? Can I refuse to pay without causing some severe consequences to my child?
Can they come back again, on the pretense that "we didn't obtain notification from the court that fine is paid", and break in this time? Can they take something this time?
Another thing that was was surprising that once they were in, they didn't touch anything or "mark" anything as they threatened they would do - nor remove anything. So why did they want to enter in the first place?
Was it just a show of force?
Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
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corinadeva
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 10 May 2018 10:55
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Zak will be along to help you soon, he is the expert, what he advised me was the fine paid online direct to the court all enforcement fails, so they can not enter and take things, as for your card cancel it the bank will put a stop on the card and issue a new one, if you have paid anything to them with the card do a charge back, and if they have already taken any money again do a charge back, they are just rent a thug with little willys wanting to feel big.Tell your daughter not to answer the door they can not break in.
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corinadeva
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 10 May 2018 10:55
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Sorry zak is now StalybridgeCakesSuck
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Thank you, that is very kind of you.
It weighs heavy on my heart, since I know my girl was de facto publicly shamed and traumatized. She told she hasn't left the house for past few days, and avoids the neighbors.
Anyways. I will do that - cancel the cards, but WORRYINGLY.
Another tidbit I recall - the bailiff actually instructed me to call HIM, not the other way around.
Is it of significance? What if I don't?
It weighs heavy on my heart, since I know my girl was de facto publicly shamed and traumatized. She told she hasn't left the house for past few days, and avoids the neighbors.
Anyways. I will do that - cancel the cards, but WORRYINGLY.
Another tidbit I recall - the bailiff actually instructed me to call HIM, not the other way around.
Is it of significance? What if I don't?
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
to begin with;
I don't know what kind of politics are you playing here. This website you linked to is really nasty. I really don't know why you did that, especially regarding the fact it has nothing to do with my question.
I don't really understand what are you saying.
My daughter paid the fine she owed online, on advice of her husband (his is away on a drilling site). He sent her the online address - HM Courts and Tribunals if I remember correctly.
Then she forwarded the receipt to the bailiff, his company, then she phones the company and repeated that she's done it, then she called the HM Courts who issued the receipt to confirm its legitimate.
And put the case to rest.
Sometime later (days, I presume) two burly men show up at her place.
She genuinely believed the cannot do anything to her, it must be some kind of a mistake.
But they did.
And now you are saying that unless I, her mother don't pay some kind of fantasy fees (for which they did NOT produce an invoice or anything like that, they just kept repeating the number) - they may come back????
And do what exactly; break into the house? Day or night?
IT DOES NOT SOUND RIGHT.
This sounds like bullying.
I don't know what kind of politics are you playing here. This website you linked to is really nasty. I really don't know why you did that, especially regarding the fact it has nothing to do with my question.
I don't really understand what are you saying.
My daughter paid the fine she owed online, on advice of her husband (his is away on a drilling site). He sent her the online address - HM Courts and Tribunals if I remember correctly.
Then she forwarded the receipt to the bailiff, his company, then she phones the company and repeated that she's done it, then she called the HM Courts who issued the receipt to confirm its legitimate.
And put the case to rest.
Sometime later (days, I presume) two burly men show up at her place.
She genuinely believed the cannot do anything to her, it must be some kind of a mistake.
But they did.
And now you are saying that unless I, her mother don't pay some kind of fantasy fees (for which they did NOT produce an invoice or anything like that, they just kept repeating the number) - they may come back????
And do what exactly; break into the house? Day or night?
IT DOES NOT SOUND RIGHT.
This sounds like bullying.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
I'm sorry, but you were trolled by a silly old man who likes to pretend to be a girl or woman and comes on here to cause trouble. He is Peter Bardsley from Stalybridge. Ridge Hill Lane to be precise and was outed by a court order that identified him.
Back to your case.
If your daughter has paid the fine online, then the enforcement power has ended. Paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Court and Enforcement Act 2007.
The bailiff's fees £310 are still owed, but there is no enforcement power to recover them.
One bailiff tried suing the debtor for the £310 fees but was lost because the fees are owned to the bailiff company and the bailiff did not have the right to bring that action (Locus Standi).
Bailiffs assert they can break entry, but that is a misrepresentation of the legal expression "enter by force". Which is defined to be entering an open or unlocked door, but not a window. Regulation 20 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2013.
There is no legal provision for bailiffs to break into homes with a "locksmith". Bailiff companies often threaten people with such action.
There is one catch, Paragraph 59 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. It states that the bailiff is not liable for damages if he takes an enforcement step after the "amount outstanding" has been paid UNLESS he has been given notice.
You must give the bailiff a Notice. You can create a free one here: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... otice.html
Back to your case.
If your daughter has paid the fine online, then the enforcement power has ended. Paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Court and Enforcement Act 2007.
The bailiff's fees £310 are still owed, but there is no enforcement power to recover them.
One bailiff tried suing the debtor for the £310 fees but was lost because the fees are owned to the bailiff company and the bailiff did not have the right to bring that action (Locus Standi).
Bailiffs assert they can break entry, but that is a misrepresentation of the legal expression "enter by force". Which is defined to be entering an open or unlocked door, but not a window. Regulation 20 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2013.
There is no legal provision for bailiffs to break into homes with a "locksmith". Bailiff companies often threaten people with such action.
There is one catch, Paragraph 59 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. It states that the bailiff is not liable for damages if he takes an enforcement step after the "amount outstanding" has been paid UNLESS he has been given notice.
You must give the bailiff a Notice. You can create a free one here: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... otice.html
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corinadeva
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 10 May 2018 10:55
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
I posted not so long back and have taken some very good advice from here just look up my user name and posts, I was in the same situation as the poster in this thread.
I haven't paid and will not be paying, they wont come back, I'm not a women who they can intimidate and bully.
What was it that touched a nerve John The Baptist, the little willy comment.
I haven't paid and will not be paying, they wont come back, I'm not a women who they can intimidate and bully.
What was it that touched a nerve John The Baptist, the little willy comment.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Peter Bardsley is now going around the internet pretending to be a WOMAN?
Oh that really sucks!
What will his kids and grandkids think of the creep their Grandpa is going on the Internet pretending to be a woman and a sex pervert.
Peter, you really need to get help.
Christine and Samantha will think you are completely bonkers when they find out what you have been up to.
Until then, go back to posting on the Consumer Action Group website. Marc Gander welcomes disgusting people like you with open arms.
Oh that really sucks!
What will his kids and grandkids think of the creep their Grandpa is going on the Internet pretending to be a woman and a sex pervert.
Peter, you really need to get help.
Christine and Samantha will think you are completely bonkers when they find out what you have been up to.
Until then, go back to posting on the Consumer Action Group website. Marc Gander welcomes disgusting people like you with open arms.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Thank you for your informative responses - I ignored the bickering.
All right, StalyBridgeCakes; so it means my baby's mistake was not generating this template.
She both phoned the bailiff and sent him the receipt, she also phoned the HM Tribunals literally in front of him.
I understand he showed in her place so quickly using this loophole and he wrecked this much damage because it was possibly his last chance to extract some money from her.
This cynical approach relies entirely on the interpretation of the word "notice"; unless it's the document generated, just an email and a receipt, it's not notice.
Do we have an avenue to complain?
TO be honest I am really looking forward to complaining.
And thank you for your help by the way. Much appreciated.
All right, StalyBridgeCakes; so it means my baby's mistake was not generating this template.
She both phoned the bailiff and sent him the receipt, she also phoned the HM Tribunals literally in front of him.
I understand he showed in her place so quickly using this loophole and he wrecked this much damage because it was possibly his last chance to extract some money from her.
This cynical approach relies entirely on the interpretation of the word "notice"; unless it's the document generated, just an email and a receipt, it's not notice.
Do we have an avenue to complain?
TO be honest I am really looking forward to complaining.
And thank you for your help by the way. Much appreciated.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
I would not make any complaints. They will mess you about. Instead, give the bailiff company some things to do, and pocket some cash if they don't.
The bailiff company is in it for profit, and HM Court Service's enforcement risk is being offloaded to them.
As the bailiff used violence and wearing a body-worn camera, it would have captured the violence and the standoff at the door with his foot stuck in it.
Make a GDPR request for his camera recordings. If they fail to produce, or has been doctored to conceal incriminating evidence, you can sue.
Here is a free template: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dance.html
Make the bailiff company produce the warrant of control and evidence of his ID and authority to enter premises. Its a statutory requirement under paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
Its another avenue to offload money from the bailiff company if they fail to comply.
Here is the template: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... mises.html
The GDPR also allows you to sue if a bailiff company fails to give you a copy of the telephone call recordings. Here is a template: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dings.html
That should keep the bailiff company busy with things to do for now.
Another way to pocket some cash, but your original post is unclear how much money was taken, and whether the fine was already paid before attending.
Can you clarify the following:
It's a nice way to get the bailiff in front of the judge and proverbially pull his pants down because it is impossible to defeat a correctly drafted detailed assessment.
As the debt is a Magistrates' court fine, the law says the Detailed Assessment is heard at your local COUNTY court.
You get all your costs paid by the bailiff company under CPR 46.5.
The bailiff company is in it for profit, and HM Court Service's enforcement risk is being offloaded to them.
As the bailiff used violence and wearing a body-worn camera, it would have captured the violence and the standoff at the door with his foot stuck in it.
Make a GDPR request for his camera recordings. If they fail to produce, or has been doctored to conceal incriminating evidence, you can sue.
Here is a free template: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dance.html
Make the bailiff company produce the warrant of control and evidence of his ID and authority to enter premises. Its a statutory requirement under paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
Its another avenue to offload money from the bailiff company if they fail to comply.
Here is the template: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... mises.html
The GDPR also allows you to sue if a bailiff company fails to give you a copy of the telephone call recordings. Here is a template: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dings.html
That should keep the bailiff company busy with things to do for now.
Another way to pocket some cash, but your original post is unclear how much money was taken, and whether the fine was already paid before attending.
Can you clarify the following:
- All dates money was taken or paid
To whom each transaction was made
And the total amount adjudged by the court to pay.
It's a nice way to get the bailiff in front of the judge and proverbially pull his pants down because it is impossible to defeat a correctly drafted detailed assessment.
As the debt is a Magistrates' court fine, the law says the Detailed Assessment is heard at your local COUNTY court.
You get all your costs paid by the bailiff company under CPR 46.5.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Ok;
I'm with my daughter and we are going through all the files again; I will be happy to give you the details, but there is just one thing that we noticed now;
we went through all the communications - all text messages and letters that came to the house and on NONE of them the amount due actually appears.
I am not joking;
The original Notice of Enforcement left this window completely blank.
The only way she knew about the amount was because the man told her on the phone; then he threatened to increase it, and so on.
But never actually put it in writing. anywhere, anytime.
Is this notice of enforcement even valid then?
All the other windows/details are filled.
I'm with my daughter and we are going through all the files again; I will be happy to give you the details, but there is just one thing that we noticed now;
we went through all the communications - all text messages and letters that came to the house and on NONE of them the amount due actually appears.
I am not joking;
The original Notice of Enforcement left this window completely blank.
The only way she knew about the amount was because the man told her on the phone; then he threatened to increase it, and so on.
But never actually put it in writing. anywhere, anytime.
Is this notice of enforcement even valid then?
All the other windows/details are filled.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
The Notice of Enforcement is a statutory document and it must contain a list of prescribed information.
The document you have posted is not a compliant enforcement document, so it can be disregarded.
For a Notice of Enforcement to be legally valid, it must contain this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... ion/7/made
and it should look something like this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014 ... edule/made
If your daughter did not know about the fine until a date after it was sentenced by the court, then the law says it, and the conviction are invalid. She must make a statutory declaration.
The document you have posted is not a compliant enforcement document, so it can be disregarded.
For a Notice of Enforcement to be legally valid, it must contain this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... ion/7/made
and it should look something like this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014 ... edule/made
If your daughter did not know about the fine until a date after it was sentenced by the court, then the law says it, and the conviction are invalid. She must make a statutory declaration.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
She knew about the conviction, and the conviction is valid.
She received notice of the (original) fine.
She did not react in time, and it went to bailiffs.
The bailiffs then sent a letter, and a week or so later put this document (the invalid notice of enforcement) under her door.
And proceeded from there.
The original fine is now paid, bailiffs are informed.
The bailiff action (visits and calls, speaking to other people and trying to extract money from others) is invalid then?
Can we at least complain about THAT???
She received notice of the (original) fine.
She did not react in time, and it went to bailiffs.
The bailiffs then sent a letter, and a week or so later put this document (the invalid notice of enforcement) under her door.
And proceeded from there.
The original fine is now paid, bailiffs are informed.
The bailiff action (visits and calls, speaking to other people and trying to extract money from others) is invalid then?
Can we at least complain about THAT???
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Actually, no.
Now I'm angry. Now I'm really angry.
The Bailiff contacted my daughter's husband TODAY and gave him the account number on which he can make a "voluntary contribution".
If those actions are invalid, I want to sue.
I mean; my daughter will sue, I will happily finance it.
Tell me how to sue please
Now I'm angry. Now I'm really angry.
The Bailiff contacted my daughter's husband TODAY and gave him the account number on which he can make a "voluntary contribution".
If those actions are invalid, I want to sue.
I mean; my daughter will sue, I will happily finance it.
Tell me how to sue please
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
An injuction under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
Your daughters husband must bring the action.
He must make a witness statement and exhibit evidence there is no fine owed and the bailiff was given notice the amount outstanding is paid.
You have to prove the bailiff is not acting in the execution of duty at the time he made a demand for money or asked for a voluntary money transfer.
He also reports the matter to the police as a complaint of unwanted contact.
Your daughters husband must bring the action.
He must make a witness statement and exhibit evidence there is no fine owed and the bailiff was given notice the amount outstanding is paid.
You have to prove the bailiff is not acting in the execution of duty at the time he made a demand for money or asked for a voluntary money transfer.
He also reports the matter to the police as a complaint of unwanted contact.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
StalybridgeCakesSuck, you misunderstood me..
I don't really care about a text message sent to a grown man abroad. It's extremely arrogant, but not dangerous.
I care about my daughter being reduced to tears and shaking in front of my eyes, about m grandkids in distress, all this to make me intervene and "volunteer" to pay two smug brutes whatever they asked.
You are telling me now that what separated them from responsibility for their actions is one-properly-filled piece of paper?
And they didn't do that?
Then yes, I want to wipe those smug grins off their faces and make them pay for what they did. And if it's over a typo, let so be it.
I said in my first post that consequences of that day can be long term form y family. What I meant was - my daughter's landlord is due to renew their lease at the end of January. We must assume he already heard about this incident.
My daughter worries he may hesitate, or perhaps not renew the lease.
With all her faults, she does not deserve that.
This could actually be truly essential in near future, some document from the bailiiffs admitting fault and APOLOGIZING.
I don't really care about a text message sent to a grown man abroad. It's extremely arrogant, but not dangerous.
I care about my daughter being reduced to tears and shaking in front of my eyes, about m grandkids in distress, all this to make me intervene and "volunteer" to pay two smug brutes whatever they asked.
You are telling me now that what separated them from responsibility for their actions is one-properly-filled piece of paper?
And they didn't do that?
Then yes, I want to wipe those smug grins off their faces and make them pay for what they did. And if it's over a typo, let so be it.
I said in my first post that consequences of that day can be long term form y family. What I meant was - my daughter's landlord is due to renew their lease at the end of January. We must assume he already heard about this incident.
My daughter worries he may hesitate, or perhaps not renew the lease.
With all her faults, she does not deserve that.
This could actually be truly essential in near future, some document from the bailiiffs admitting fault and APOLOGIZING.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Bailiff companies never apologise for anything. For them, profit comes first. With Newlyn Plc, profits come before peoples lives. Jerome Rodgers is a good example.
From my experience, I find the most efficient route, get the client lawyered up at the first opportunity, then issue the bailiff company the Notice of Acting.
The bailiff company quickly dances to your tune when you are in control and racking up a big bill.
I am not sure what you want to do with your daughter's case. If you can tell me your intentions, I'll see if it can work.
If a bailiff is not acting in execution of duty and is causing your family distress, there are legal remedies available.
From my experience, I find the most efficient route, get the client lawyered up at the first opportunity, then issue the bailiff company the Notice of Acting.
The bailiff company quickly dances to your tune when you are in control and racking up a big bill.
I am not sure what you want to do with your daughter's case. If you can tell me your intentions, I'll see if it can work.
If a bailiff is not acting in execution of duty and is causing your family distress, there are legal remedies available.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Samantha, if that's really you then drop me a line, we need to have a chat. It's not about your cakes.Samantha Banham wrote: ↑02 Dec 2019 00:17 If anyone has a problem with my cakes please let me know. I am nothing to do with my dad and if he'd spent more time reading the news instead of posting on hs blog, he would have known how much trouble Thomas Cook were in. Only a fool would have paid a £2k deposit with Thomas Cook when it was clear for months that they were going to go bump.
I don't think your dad ever intended to go on an £11K holiday. It was a fantasy he vented on the internet.
https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/t ... nt-5013404
He can't even support himself let alone splash out on a holiday.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
The incident at my daughters house happened a week ago, on Thursday.
When I replay it in my head it becomes clear to me that the "scene" caused and distress was done on purpose, a kind of provocation to make someone "intervene" and volunteer to pay the debt. It was almost done for me, once they realized I was home.
They tried to charge my card, but my bank refused the transaction (I live in the US - long story). So technically speaking they left with NOTHING.
They asked to photograph my card so "they can charge it later", which I refused. I suspect someone took a photo of it, but it doesn't matter now, it's been cancelled.
The original fine was paid very late at night the PREVIOUS day (Wednesday), and notifications were sent it the morning.
What we want done;
I want a statement (I don't care from who; the judge or the bailiffs) admitting wrongdoing. Anything in writing that says it was NOT my daughters fault, this incident.
If the bailiff company (Marstons) doesn't issue those, ever, I am fine with that; paying damages is tantamount to admitting fault, at least in any reasonable persons eyes.
I want retribution for the distress caused and pestering communications my daughter, and more importantly my son in law received. He was very upset because he couldn't intervene directly - he is abroad on a contract.
If they broke the rules (notice of enforcement) I will make them pay the maximum I can - in shame, money, or loss of licence.
Whatever I (we) can get.
When I replay it in my head it becomes clear to me that the "scene" caused and distress was done on purpose, a kind of provocation to make someone "intervene" and volunteer to pay the debt. It was almost done for me, once they realized I was home.
They tried to charge my card, but my bank refused the transaction (I live in the US - long story). So technically speaking they left with NOTHING.
They asked to photograph my card so "they can charge it later", which I refused. I suspect someone took a photo of it, but it doesn't matter now, it's been cancelled.
The original fine was paid very late at night the PREVIOUS day (Wednesday), and notifications were sent it the morning.
What we want done;
I want a statement (I don't care from who; the judge or the bailiffs) admitting wrongdoing. Anything in writing that says it was NOT my daughters fault, this incident.
If the bailiff company (Marstons) doesn't issue those, ever, I am fine with that; paying damages is tantamount to admitting fault, at least in any reasonable persons eyes.
I want retribution for the distress caused and pestering communications my daughter, and more importantly my son in law received. He was very upset because he couldn't intervene directly - he is abroad on a contract.
If they broke the rules (notice of enforcement) I will make them pay the maximum I can - in shame, money, or loss of licence.
Whatever I (we) can get.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Its not uncommon for a bailiffs card machine not to work.
Its due to the high level of chargebacks and the terminal is suspended due to "suspicious activity".
I suspect your card is OK, but an American bank would not underwrite a transaction attempted on terminal with a high risk merchant.
That's a no-no. A cardholder not-present transaction would be attenpted using another terminal. You have have needed to do a chargback for unauthorised use.They asked to photograph my card so "they can charge it later", which I refused. I suspect someone took a photo of it, but it doesn't matter now, it's been cancelled.
The enforcement power ended. Paragraph 6 of Schedule 12 of the tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.The original fine was paid very late at night the PREVIOUS day (Wednesday), and notifications were sent it the morning.
The bailiff is in it for profit.
A dead case is usually futile for a bailiff, but some still try it on and get the fees afterwards.
Most take it on the chin and move on.
You won't get one.What we want done;
I want a statement (I don't care from who; the judge or the bailiffs) admitting wrongdoing. Anything in writing that says it was NOT my daughters fault, this incident.
Bailiffs admit to nothing. You have to drag it through the courts and get a finding of fact.
I think restitution would be an easier goal than trying for retribution.If the bailiff company (Marstons) doesn't issue those, ever, I am fine with that; paying damages is tantamount to admitting fault, at least in any reasonable persons eyes.
I want retribution for the distress caused
and pestering communications my daughter, and more importantly my son in law received. He was very upset because he couldn't intervene directly - he is abroad on a contract.
If they broke the rules (notice of enforcement) I will make them pay the maximum I can - in shame, money, or loss of licence.
Whatever I (we) can get.
Bring an action in the small claims track.
You will need to quantify your damages to an extent, but the courts are generally averse to making summary awards against bailiff companies no matter how disappointing their behaviour.
I have seen bailiffs let off by the courts for sexual assault, violence, carrying a knife, wearing police attire, mugging a 92 years old lady and trashing her conservatory, stealing (picking up and surreptitiously pocketing) car and house keys and returning undercover of darkness and attempted to re-enter the property, stealing jewellery and selling it on eBay, being flashed by a speed camera in a stolen Mercedes, and a bailiff driving his van chasing a client down the M5 at 90mph.
All of that I have seen on camera. I am case-hardened from dealing with the worst cases, but I have seen some very successful high-value claims and its those that keep the bailiff industry in check.
There has been a massive improvement in safety from rogue bailiffs than the wild-west days prior to 2006, a time when bailiffs got away with just about anything, including embezzling expensive cars and breaking into homes.
Introducing regulation in 2014 and the Internet enabled people to get advice on dealing with bailiffs.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
StalybridgecakesSuck it sounds like you don't have much faith n the success of our case.
You present it as something difficult to litigate and both costly and time consuming.
To me, it sounded pretty straightforward (invalid Notice of Enforcement - invalid enforcement, short and simple, can't argue your way out of it).
but you present it as something costly, tedious and essentially not worth it.
You present it as something difficult to litigate and both costly and time consuming.
To me, it sounded pretty straightforward (invalid Notice of Enforcement - invalid enforcement, short and simple, can't argue your way out of it).
but you present it as something costly, tedious and essentially not worth it.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
An invalid notice is very easy to prove. Just exhibit it and show the court the legislation specifying what it should contain.
How do you monetise your damages?
When Ive done an unlawful entry claim, ive used summary ones such as £500 for the first hour the bailiff is in the house then £100 per hour there after, and charged by the minute.
The problem with summary damages is the court has total discretion.
With special damages, for example, proven damages such as an invoice for £500 to send a flat bed truck to collect an unlawfully taken car from a bailiffs compound, and a rental car invoice, the court discretion is taken away. The claimant has a statutory right to relief under section 3 of the Torts (Interference.with Goods) Act 1977.
Special damages also includes an electician to be called out to reconnect a TV set after a bailiff unplugged it. A bailiff company paid just over £220 just to put someones TV and set top box back together.
I'll do your claim, but so long as you know its not the strongest one Ive done.
How do you monetise your damages?
When Ive done an unlawful entry claim, ive used summary ones such as £500 for the first hour the bailiff is in the house then £100 per hour there after, and charged by the minute.
The problem with summary damages is the court has total discretion.
With special damages, for example, proven damages such as an invoice for £500 to send a flat bed truck to collect an unlawfully taken car from a bailiffs compound, and a rental car invoice, the court discretion is taken away. The claimant has a statutory right to relief under section 3 of the Torts (Interference.with Goods) Act 1977.
Special damages also includes an electician to be called out to reconnect a TV set after a bailiff unplugged it. A bailiff company paid just over £220 just to put someones TV and set top box back together.
I'll do your claim, but so long as you know its not the strongest one Ive done.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
An invalid notice is very easy to prove. Just exhibit it and show the court the legislation specifying what it should contain.
That's all I want quite frankly. I am not looking for a drawn out process.
"Ive done an unlawful entry claim, Ive used summary ones such as £500 for the first hour the bailiff is in the house then £100 per hour there after, and charged by the minute."
That would be satisfactory as well.
Quite frankly I find it unbelievable the Bailiffs would even want to spend money on arguing in court over such a straightforward matter, instead of folding, but it's up to them.
As long as the claim itself doesn't cost thousands of pounds and takes months, the small amount compensation is fine.
What is more important is obtaining a court judgment clearly stating the incident was not any of the house members fault.
Should we request the Bailiffs bodycamera footage and other documents before launching this?
Do I need witness statements just to prove the bailiff was indeed - in the house? Wouldn't their records simply show it?
That's all I want quite frankly. I am not looking for a drawn out process.
"Ive done an unlawful entry claim, Ive used summary ones such as £500 for the first hour the bailiff is in the house then £100 per hour there after, and charged by the minute."
That would be satisfactory as well.
Quite frankly I find it unbelievable the Bailiffs would even want to spend money on arguing in court over such a straightforward matter, instead of folding, but it's up to them.
As long as the claim itself doesn't cost thousands of pounds and takes months, the small amount compensation is fine.
What is more important is obtaining a court judgment clearly stating the incident was not any of the house members fault.
Should we request the Bailiffs bodycamera footage and other documents before launching this?
Do I need witness statements just to prove the bailiff was indeed - in the house? Wouldn't their records simply show it?
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Judgments only make monetary awards or orders addressed to respondents to do something, or stop doing something.
I think you mean that you want a court to make a finding of fact, the bailiff took enforcement steps against a party who is not the debtor named on his instructions.
Yes: here is a free template: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dance.htmlShould we request the Bailiffs bodycamera footage and other documents before launching this?
And also get the telephone call recordings as well: Another free template: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dings.html
Make the bailiff produce evidence of his ID and his authority to enter the property: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... mises.html
It all costs nothing. If the bailiff company is not going to cooperate, then he hangs himself. You are giving him a rope to do it with.
No,Do I need witness statements just to prove the bailiff was indeed - in the house? Wouldn't their records simply show it?
You only make a witness statement if you want to bring a claim.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
All right;
I have a conspiracy theory that bailiffs are reading this forum and trying to figure out whether its their "case" that is messaging for advice.
Could I be correct?
We received communication from the bailiffs today threatening with a surprise visit and locksmith if we don't pay the fees (Happy to send it to Zeke in a private message).
I will not post the original text message, because this might be the giveaway.
The letter from the Courts arrived saying the fine will be sent on to the Bailiffs and that we still owe the fees.
These messages are an outward lie and harassment.
Thougths on appropriate reaction?
The requests for footage/other have been sent today, we did not reveal to the Bailiffs their Notice of Enforcement was invalid
I have a conspiracy theory that bailiffs are reading this forum and trying to figure out whether its their "case" that is messaging for advice.
Could I be correct?
We received communication from the bailiffs today threatening with a surprise visit and locksmith if we don't pay the fees (Happy to send it to Zeke in a private message).
I will not post the original text message, because this might be the giveaway.
The letter from the Courts arrived saying the fine will be sent on to the Bailiffs and that we still owe the fees.
These messages are an outward lie and harassment.
Thougths on appropriate reaction?
The requests for footage/other have been sent today, we did not reveal to the Bailiffs their Notice of Enforcement was invalid
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
It's not bailiffs that read this board.
It's individuals who work with bailiff companies that do.
Here is the story of several individuals exposed: https://jasonbennison.com/
We have a special section on this board that is private and away from prying eyes.
There is no conspiracy theory as far as I know. I only give free advice on this board but I pass clients to solicitors and develop commercial software used by them for the production of legal documents. Not just bailiff, N244s and interpleader claims etc, but in other branches of law.
The locksmith message you received is nothing new. Its boilerplate.
Just hand it to the police with a complaint of false representation because the enforcement power does not confer a power to break entry or to interfere with the locks to a private house.
Bailiffs executing a writ of possession (property repossessions etc) can use a locksmith.
A warrant of control only confers a power to take control of goods. Nothing to do with breaking entry.
The letter from the court is also a boilerplate. It just says they will give the money to a bailiff company. It is an effort to protect the commercial interest of the bailiff company who are working for the Court Service for free and remunerated entirely on successful recovery of the fines and fees.
Nothing in the enforcement regulations provide for Court Service to give public money to a private company to divvy up their fee and return the balance. That is a misinterpretation of the rules when the money recovered from the sale of the debtors' goods are less than the debt and the fees combined.
No reaction needed.
If a bailiff takes money after the enforcement power has ended, then you can apply for a detailed assessment.
The bailiff company get a big bill, usually upwards £4000 for a court fines dispute because of the lengthy legal argument documents entered to court. Solicitors like to charge a big fat hourly rate for it all - even if the documents are churned out of a computer program like a sausage machine.
It's individuals who work with bailiff companies that do.
Here is the story of several individuals exposed: https://jasonbennison.com/
We have a special section on this board that is private and away from prying eyes.
There is no conspiracy theory as far as I know. I only give free advice on this board but I pass clients to solicitors and develop commercial software used by them for the production of legal documents. Not just bailiff, N244s and interpleader claims etc, but in other branches of law.
The locksmith message you received is nothing new. Its boilerplate.
Just hand it to the police with a complaint of false representation because the enforcement power does not confer a power to break entry or to interfere with the locks to a private house.
Bailiffs executing a writ of possession (property repossessions etc) can use a locksmith.
A warrant of control only confers a power to take control of goods. Nothing to do with breaking entry.
The letter from the court is also a boilerplate. It just says they will give the money to a bailiff company. It is an effort to protect the commercial interest of the bailiff company who are working for the Court Service for free and remunerated entirely on successful recovery of the fines and fees.
Nothing in the enforcement regulations provide for Court Service to give public money to a private company to divvy up their fee and return the balance. That is a misinterpretation of the rules when the money recovered from the sale of the debtors' goods are less than the debt and the fees combined.
No reaction needed.
If a bailiff takes money after the enforcement power has ended, then you can apply for a detailed assessment.
The bailiff company get a big bill, usually upwards £4000 for a court fines dispute because of the lengthy legal argument documents entered to court. Solicitors like to charge a big fat hourly rate for it all - even if the documents are churned out of a computer program like a sausage machine.
Re: Bailiff forced entry and taking other residents bank details
Zeke,
I hope you are doing all right.
Could you do me a GREAT favor and read a message I sent to you directly on this forum?
There is an update with the case.
Sincerely,
"the daughter"
I hope you are doing all right.
Could you do me a GREAT favor and read a message I sent to you directly on this forum?
There is an update with the case.
Sincerely,
"the daughter"