Hi all,
I had a loan with a company called Ferratum which didn't get paid (long story).
The loan was sold to a company called Asset Investigations and Collections and their sister company TM Legal are thretening a CCJ.
I have written asking for proof of contract but they are saying it was sold to them under The Law of Property Act 1925, so they don't have to show me proof. I have argued that without proof they could be anyone asking for money but they aren't budging.
Please can you advise what my next move would be to them. Thanks.
Law of Property Act
Re: Law of Property Act
Send a CCA request to the DCA.
Then a SAR to the original creditors. Don't ignore any letters as you may find that they attempt a backdoor CCJ...
There are plenty of forums that give advice. Unless you have had an Enforcement Officer (EA) Then they are just boring debt collection agents (DCA's) with no power go force anything on you.
Get it sorted before it goes pear-shaped!
Then a SAR to the original creditors. Don't ignore any letters as you may find that they attempt a backdoor CCJ...
There are plenty of forums that give advice. Unless you have had an Enforcement Officer (EA) Then they are just boring debt collection agents (DCA's) with no power go force anything on you.
Get it sorted before it goes pear-shaped!
Re: Law of Property Act
If a claimant cannot prove a claim then they cannot get a CCJ.
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AnotherFineMess
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 06 Sep 2019 10:18
Re: Law of Property Act
Hi. Thanks Delta 157 and Zeke for your replies.
I will send a CCA request and SAR to them.
As for proving the debt, are they right is saying that under the Law and Property Act they don't have to do so?
I have googled the act and it appears that this can only be used for mortgages and land disputes. As mine was a personal loan it seems strange that they have supposedly used this to buy the debt.
I will send a CCA request and SAR to them.
As for proving the debt, are they right is saying that under the Law and Property Act they don't have to do so?
I have googled the act and it appears that this can only be used for mortgages and land disputes. As mine was a personal loan it seems strange that they have supposedly used this to buy the debt.
Re: Law of Property Act
I wouldn't bother with a SAR. You don't have the burden of proving the claim against you.
Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 only provides for a debt to be assigned to someone, in this case, a debt collector in exchange for a payment, in other words, buying a debt.
Debt buyers pay about 10% of the debt value because the recovery rates are very low, and they rely on an uncontested debt.
As soon as a debt is contested, its usually a lost cause for the debt buyer because the contract at which the debt was created is usually lost and did not carry over to the new owner of the debt. That makes bringing a contested claim and getting a judgment very difficult.
To get a judgment, it ideally for the debt buyer, needs to be an uncontested claim where the debtor does not dispute the debt. Once a debt is admitted by the debtor, the debt buyer can enforcement payment including a charging order on property or send bailiffs round once judgment has been given.
Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 only provides for a debt to be assigned to someone, in this case, a debt collector in exchange for a payment, in other words, buying a debt.
Debt buyers pay about 10% of the debt value because the recovery rates are very low, and they rely on an uncontested debt.
As soon as a debt is contested, its usually a lost cause for the debt buyer because the contract at which the debt was created is usually lost and did not carry over to the new owner of the debt. That makes bringing a contested claim and getting a judgment very difficult.
To get a judgment, it ideally for the debt buyer, needs to be an uncontested claim where the debtor does not dispute the debt. Once a debt is admitted by the debtor, the debt buyer can enforcement payment including a charging order on property or send bailiffs round once judgment has been given.
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AnotherFineMess
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 06 Sep 2019 10:18
Re: Law of Property Act
Hi Zeke. Thaks for your reply.
I have challenged their claim and this is their response:
It is not in dispute that there is no signed contract between yourself and Asset Collections and Investigations Limited. The Credit Agreement is between yourself and Ferratum UK LTD. Within this Credit agreement, clause 22 states the following;
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22.1 You may not assign this Agreement to any other person, but we may assign or transfer our rights
under this Agreement without providing you with prior notice. If we do so, this will not alter any
of your obligations or your rights.
22.2 Where we assign or transfer our rights under this Agreement either we or the person to whom
we transfer or assign our rights under this Agreement will provide you with notice of the
assignment or transfer as soon as possible after the assignment or transfer takes place.
As per this clause, upon the rights under the agreement held by Ferratum UK LTD being transferred to Asset Collections and Investigations Limited, you were sent a Notice of Assignment by email and then later by letter as previously stated.
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I have challenged their claim and this is their response:
It is not in dispute that there is no signed contract between yourself and Asset Collections and Investigations Limited. The Credit Agreement is between yourself and Ferratum UK LTD. Within this Credit agreement, clause 22 states the following;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22.1 You may not assign this Agreement to any other person, but we may assign or transfer our rights
under this Agreement without providing you with prior notice. If we do so, this will not alter any
of your obligations or your rights.
22.2 Where we assign or transfer our rights under this Agreement either we or the person to whom
we transfer or assign our rights under this Agreement will provide you with notice of the
assignment or transfer as soon as possible after the assignment or transfer takes place.
As per this clause, upon the rights under the agreement held by Ferratum UK LTD being transferred to Asset Collections and Investigations Limited, you were sent a Notice of Assignment by email and then later by letter as previously stated.
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Re: Law of Property Act
That is perfectly legal.
But if the assigned debt is disputed then they must bring a claim. If the claim isxa defended one then it's usually toxic for the claimant.
But if the assigned debt is disputed then they must bring a claim. If the claim isxa defended one then it's usually toxic for the claimant.
Re: Law of Property Act
The reason for the SAR is to obtain your file from the creditor.
It's free and they have 30 days to comply.
Why is this important?
A default notice maybe defective.
An agreement is defective.
A number of reasons TBH.
If the owners of the debt take this to Court you'll need to apply for a CPR 31.14 anyways. No harm getting the information now and dealing with a debt THAT MIGHT see you get a CCJ!.
A CCA request is advisable s77-79 as well. They must include required information. They then have 12 days to give you ALL if the required information!
Zekes reply is WRONG!
You'll need this information to find out why the debt has been assigned or sold. Once you know this then you can deal with it!
Zeke judging your response all you have done is change your username!
I hope the poster does intend to get the information, it's going to help as you well know!!!
It's free and they have 30 days to comply.
Why is this important?
A default notice maybe defective.
An agreement is defective.
A number of reasons TBH.
If the owners of the debt take this to Court you'll need to apply for a CPR 31.14 anyways. No harm getting the information now and dealing with a debt THAT MIGHT see you get a CCJ!.
A CCA request is advisable s77-79 as well. They must include required information. They then have 12 days to give you ALL if the required information!
Zekes reply is WRONG!
You'll need this information to find out why the debt has been assigned or sold. Once you know this then you can deal with it!
Zeke judging your response all you have done is change your username!
I hope the poster does intend to get the information, it's going to help as you well know!!!
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AnotherFineMess
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 06 Sep 2019 10:18
Re: Law of Property Act
Hi Thanks again for your replies.
When I recieve the SAR and CCA I will go over it in depth and see if there are any inaccuracies.
When I recieve the SAR and CCA I will go over it in depth and see if there are any inaccuracies.
Re: Law of Property Act
No point in explaining Zeke, to much tying for me to try to explain.
You know full well if a debtor does nothing then its possible that a back door CCJ could be the end result. Then enforcement is a strong possibility.
It goes like this...
DCA tries to get money, debtor hides. N1 claim form issued, goes undefeated, CCJ granted.
EA instructed. Then a new customer. Always fight a DCA there's always a reason a debt is sold! Just find it.
No need for it to go that far, just look for the reason why then sort it..
To the original poster. Get the data pack. Check your credit file the just wait, read your bundle, seek further advice.
Dont ignore any forms if they arrive!
You know full well if a debtor does nothing then its possible that a back door CCJ could be the end result. Then enforcement is a strong possibility.
It goes like this...
DCA tries to get money, debtor hides. N1 claim form issued, goes undefeated, CCJ granted.
EA instructed. Then a new customer. Always fight a DCA there's always a reason a debt is sold! Just find it.
No need for it to go that far, just look for the reason why then sort it..
To the original poster. Get the data pack. Check your credit file the just wait, read your bundle, seek further advice.
Dont ignore any forms if they arrive!
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AnotherFineMess
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 06 Sep 2019 10:18
Re: Law of Property Act
Thanks delta157.
I will await the SAR and keep an eye out for any claim packs etc. that might arrive.
I will await the SAR and keep an eye out for any claim packs etc. that might arrive.
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AnotherFineMess
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 06 Sep 2019 10:18
Re: Law of Property Act
Hi.
Just a quick update.
Did a SAR and received paperwork.
They sent a CCJ claim which I defended.
I now have until 21st November to send all the peperwork I will be relying on to defend the claim.
What should I include please?
Thanks again for all advice.
Just a quick update.
Did a SAR and received paperwork.
They sent a CCJ claim which I defended.
I now have until 21st November to send all the peperwork I will be relying on to defend the claim.
What should I include please?
Thanks again for all advice.