NOTICE OF ENFORECEMENT

[Rosie63]

[STOPFINE][/STOPFINE]Newbie here desperate for some help

Nearly 3 years ago I took 2 rings into a auction house, they lied to me for months when I tried to get the rings back turned out they had been stolen. Police involved but they could not do much as no CCTV working. After a lot of messing around the Manager asked me to get a valuation for them that was easy as the shop that had made them was still in business so the valuation was never over inflated. The owner than got involved and would not pay out. I issued a claim in the money small claims court for just under £10,000 the valuation was over £13,000 he never responded and I was issued the first judgement for him to pay the full amount. He applied to have it set aside and the case was transferred to my local county court, attended hearing and the judge set aside judgement!! He was then ordered to send me a copy of his defence and some other stuff by a certain date again he never compiled I applied for another judgement which was issued. I then waited. After 6/7 weeks I contacted The Sheriffs Office and they paid him a visit and got the full amount. Some weeks later he took it back to court (never told judge about the sheriff visit until end of hearing) and by then the judge had once again set it aside. Everybody at the court could not believe how he was getting these judgements set aside. After that had to go back to hearing the whole thing was a real mess. It started nearly 2 hours late the judge had not read any of the paperwork and he agreed it was a very complicated case. The next 2 nearly 3 hours were horrendous the owner of the auction house was shouting at me and the judge even blamed the judge for looking at the wrong paperwork. He even threw his mobile across the room. The judge wanted to ajoin until another time but he started shouting about how long he had been waiting so he went ahead and did the summing up which did not make any sense. He awarded him £4,842.00 even though he knew the original money had all gone. I am elderly disabled and live by myself on benefits. I tried to appeal it but it came back that I needed the judges permission to appeal and would need legal representation. I managed to find some paperwork on line about Bailiffs and Vulnerable people stating Bailiffs must withdraw from homes of line vulnerable people and vulnerable debtors are not liable for the £235 Enforcement Stage is this true. The company he has used are SHCE Ltd, third floor, linden house, caterham CR3 5XL.
I have applied for a debt relief order which my local citizens advice are doing but it seems to be taking a really long time.
Sorry for the length of this but any help would be really appreciated.

[zeke]

Newbie here desperate for some help

Nearly 3 years ago I took 2 rings into a auction house, they lied to me for months when I tried to get the rings back turned out they had been stolen. Police involved but they could not do much as no CCTV working. After a lot of messing around the Manager asked me to get a valuation for them that was easy as the shop that had made them was still in business so the valuation was never over inflated. The owner than got involved and would not pay out. I issued a claim in the money small claims court for just under £10,000 the valuation was over £13,000 he never responded and I was issued the first judgement for him to pay the full amount. He applied to have it set aside and the case was transferred to my local county court, attended hearing and the judge set aside judgement!! He was then ordered to send me a copy of his defence and some other stuff by a certain date again he never compiled I applied for another judgement which was issued. I then waited. After 6/7 weeks I contacted The Sheriffs Office and they paid him a visit and got the full amount. Some weeks later he took it back to court (never told judge about the sheriff visit until end of hearing) and by then the judge had once again set it aside. Everybody at the court could not believe how he was getting these judgements set aside.

Getting judgments set aside is very easy, its just as easy getting a writ stayed.

Its done in minutes using automated computer-generated documents and an outdoor clerk attending the High Court masters. Years ago, solicitors did it manually and charge upwards of £1500, but nowadays its £350 and a £150 court fee, much cheaper than the £2000 High Court bailiffs fees added to the judgment.

After that had to go back to hearing the whole thing was a real mess. It started nearly 2 hours late the judge had not read any of the paperwork and he agreed it was a very complicated case.

If a court or a solicitor uses the word "complicated" it means they want to bump up the fees and make the case look complicated and expensive. Civil enforcement administration these days is straight-forward and mostly computer-generated.

The next 2 nearly 3 hours were horrendous the owner of the auction house was shouting at me and the judge even blamed the judge for looking at the wrong paperwork.

Judge blamed the judge? can you elaborate?

He even threw his mobile across the room. The judge wanted to ajoin until another time but he started shouting about how long he had been waiting so he went ahead and did the summing up which did not make any sense. He awarded him £4,842.00 even though he knew the original money had all gone. I am elderly disabled and live by myself on benefits. I tried to appeal it but it came back that I needed the judges permission to appeal and would need legal representation. I managed to find some paperwork on line about Bailiffs and Vulnerable people stating Bailiffs must withdraw from homes of line vulnerable people and vulnerable debtors are not liable for the £235 Enforcement Stage is this true. The company he has used are SHCE Ltd, third floor, linden house, caterham CR3 5XL.
I have applied for a debt relief order which my local citizens advice are doing but it seems to be taking a really long time.
Sorry for the length of this but any help would be really appreciated.

A debt relief order shouldn't take long, but you should ask the practitioner to give notice to the bailiff company the debt is under their administration and that stops further action.

I didn't know Citizens Advice could make DRO's as its just an advice service, but charities such as Step Change can set up a DRO. Please bear in mind I have no training in DRO and debt management as my technical knowledge is in civil enforcement redress. I can only stop bailiffs and write off debts. I cannot negotiate them.

Put a rocket on that DRO and that stops the enforcement.

[Rosie63]

It was the judge who stated it was complicated, there where no solicitors involved.

Sorry I meant the the owner of the auction house blamed the judge for looking at the wrong paperwork. He was so out of order even went up to the judge with his mobile and told him to get his facts right and read something on his mobile. The judge never once pulled him up on his attitude.

The CitIzens Advice where very helpful in the beginning but they are taking ages to sort out the DRO. They have asked me to email them a copy of the letter from enforcement, I am hoping they will then write to them, stating what you have said.

They have also said I would be classed as a vulnerable person as I am an amputee, elderly, live by myself and I am an outpatient at a large mental health hospital suffering from bipolar and PTSD.

I was exempt from paying any court fees as I live on disability benefits.

Can you point me in the right direction to find the automated computer generated documents. Then do I have to go up to London to the High Court Masters? I am completely out of my depth with this.

[zeke]

You can go to the High Court masters but first, go to the Personal Support Unit in the East Block first floor and have a volunteer go in with you.

The software is for legal professionals and on subscription, they pay lots of money for it, but you can create a free N244 here.

If you are applying to vary the judgment because you have a change of circumstances, then download and complete a form N245. If you are applying to set aside the judgment then make a statement giving details when you learned of the judgment, and explain why it is disputed.

[Rosie63]

Thanks for all the information, on the N244 question 3 not sure what answer applies to my case and I did know about the judgement. I am trying to get the judgement set aside as considering my items of value were stolen while under the care of his business and they had asked me to get the valuation in the first place (which was reduced by £3,800.00) to get the debt below the £10,000 for the small claims court.

citizens advice are still messing about over the DRO now they have sent me debt and mental health evidence form that they want filled in by my GP. I have never given them permission to even discuss my mental health.

[Rosie63]

If I do the statement and explain why it is being disputed is it possible for a relative to go up to the High Court on my behalf?

[zeke]

Unless you are legally proficient at this then I recommend not doing this alone. Forum advice can only give you guidance but it cannot fight a case for you.

This gives an outline of the process: https://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/S ... r-HCEO.htm

If you were unaware of the judgment until a date after it was made, then in part 3 would be something like:

• Stay the writ of control and set aside the judgment because the defendant was unaware of the judgment until a date after it was made by the court and the applicant has a strong prospect of a successful defence.

Your witness statement must contain three facts.

• 1. You did not know about the judgment (for example, you changed address), and,
  
  2. You have a reasonable prospect of success at defending the original claim, or if you have not seen the claim particulars, then enter. 2. The defendant has not seen the grounds of the claim or the evidence supporting it.
  
  3. If the judgment is more than 21 days ago, explain why the application is late (for example, a bailiff turned up - and give the date).

I don't know if a relative can go on your behalf, Ive never done that before. There is a Personal Support Unit on the 1st floor and I am told they have always been very good at helping people who are daunted by the prospect of going in before a High Court master.

[Rosie63]

I’m confused I cannot do any of the above as the judgement was made in December 2018, i was present so obviously know about judgement.

In your first posting you stated that it is easy to get a writ stayed, does this not apply to me?

[zeke]

You can do a change of circumstances and apply for a variation. That will but the bailiff and all those fees to bed.

[Rosie63]

Sorry i’ve not been able to get online. How do a get a variation for change of circumstances. Thank you for your help.

[zeke]

Here is how to apply to stay the writ of control and apply for a variation: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/St ... gment.html

[Rosie63]

Just heard from the High Court Enforcement office. My doctor was asked to fill in a Debt & Mental Health form which she did (I never saw was send directly from doctors to them). They have stated that they have closed the file and will no longer be enforcing this judgment debt and have passed the Warrant back to there client. What i want to find out is can just go to other Enforement companies until he finds one that will do what he wants,

[Syd Snitkin]

Theoretically yes, but it will cost him more fees and will just result in another letter from your GP.

Having read through your thread, I just want to clarify as it's a bit jumbled. From what I read:

• The auction house lost 2 rings, claiming they were stolen
  
  The auction house owner asked you for a valuation
  
  The valuation was ~£13,000. The auction house owner refused to pay.
  
  You made a claim, keeping it under £10,000 to qualify for the small claims.
  
  You won the case, the auction house owner got a set aside to allow for a defence but failed to provide one
  
  The hearing was again in your favour.
  
  The bailiffs visited the auction house owner and got payment in full from him
  
  He applied for a set aside again and at the next hearing the judge awarded him ~£4800

Is that all accurate? If so, a few questions.

1- How long was it between the bailiff receiving payment in full and the auction house owner applying for the set aside?

2- Why did the judge award against you at the last hearing?

3- Can you post a copy of this judgement (removing any personal details)?

4- Have you had any contact with the police regarding the theft?

[zeke]

It is unlikely the creditor will approach another enforcement company. They will charge another transfer fee £65 because the original writ has a named High Court Officer on it.

[Rosie63]

Syd Snitkin. Thank you for answering my question. You have basically got all the details right, It was slightly more complicated. i hope this is the end of it but obviously not 100% sure. I have had over 2 years of living on my nerves and it has made me very ill.

[Rosie63]

Schedule 12. Thank you for all your help in this matter

[Syd Snitkin]

Syd Snitkin. Thank you for answering my question. You have basically got all the details right, It was slightly more complicated. i hope this is the end of it but obviously not 100% sure. I have had over 2 years of living on my nerves and it has made me very ill.

So to clarify:

1- How long was it between the bailiff receiving payment in full and the auction house owner applying for the set aside?

2- Why did the judge award against you at the last hearing?

3- Can you post a copy of this judgement (removing any personal details)?

4- Have you had any contact with the police regarding the theft?

[Rosie63]

Can you tell me why your so interested?

[Syd Snitkin]

Well, you've come here for advice and there are some blanks that need filling.

Once the bailiff received payment in full, then he needs to wait 14 days before passing this payment on to you. If the 14 days elapsed before before the auction house owner made the latest set aside application then you can question why the bailiff didn't pay you the funds. What happened to this money?

It also seems very odd that the latest judgement went against you and it would be beneficial to see or know why the judge decided in that way, ie why did the judge award £4800 to the auction house owner, what defence did he provide, etc.

You said the rings were stolen - I would assume the police were informed and a crime number given. Have the police even spoken to you? Does the auction house have insurance for such matters? Do you have contents insurance that would cover this instance?

From what you've posted, you've lost 2 rings worth £13000 that were in the safekeeping of the auction house, yet you're expected to accept no compensation for your loss alongside paying £4800 to the person who lost them. That's just madness yet you seem to unbothered.