Can bailiffs enforce their own fees after debt has been paid?

[Riico]

Hi all

Will try to be as descriptive as possible:

I am currently an overseas landlord (moved to the UAE with work and my home is rented out in London, UK). Last year i had a period when the property was vacant. The council was advised accordingly, along with a further notification of when a new tenant moved in. I was sent a bill for this period, but the original statement had the incorrect dates for when it was unoccupied. I called the council (twice) to try to rectify this (and try to pay the outstanding balance) and both times i was told that they needed to regenerate the bill so i could pay the correct outstanding balance. I also followed up with an email in May stating the same, to which i received no response.

I then suddenly discovered last week that a bailiff has contacted my old flat mate (who hasn't lived at my property for 6 years!) to tell them that in 24 hours they would be visiting my property for a removal of goods due to an unpaid council tax bill.

I immediately phoned the council, who say they have issued me various notices (which i haven't received because i don't live at the address and the council won't accept a foreign forward correspondence address). They also claimed to have no record of me having contacted them twice before, nor a copy of the email i had sent back in May. Anyway, I paid the outstanding balance directly to them and I forwarded my email again, which they agreed to review. However, the council has now come back saying my email was sent after they had instructed the bailiffs, so they would not call them off despite me having paid the balance and provided evidence of me chasing.

In the meantime, I called the bailiff to relay that the council tax had been paid, but they claim that the council have just "made things worse for me" - i still owe them for their fees (GBP310 I believe) and they would continue proceedings unless i pay. i have not seen any sight of a bill, but i asked the bailiff to give me a breakdown which apparently includes a charge for a "first visit" where they say they left a note, but the tenant has not received anything. In the end I had to hang up as the bailiff refused to back down, and the situation is left in limbo. My old flat mate has now contacted me again saying the Bailiff has called / text again saying the will be visiting the property in 24 hours.

I've advised the tenant of what has happened, and told him not to let the bailiff in if they visit. I have also researched my rights and understand that they cannot 'force' entry because it does not relate to income tax or a High Court order. I also don't have any worthwhile belongings in the flat except for some old furniture - all white goods are fixed and the TV etc is the tenant's. However i do feel bad that the tenant could be dragged into this, and wanted to check the following:

- Can the bailiff seize goods from the tenant to cover a debt owed (though paid!) by the landlord?
- Does the bailiff have the right to pursue their charges, even though the council tax arrears have been settled by the landlord directly with the council?
- is there anything i can do to get rid of the bailiffs now that the council has refused to recall them?

I also find it completely unacceptable that the council has been absolutely incompetent throughout the process which has led to this situation in he first place, but I guess that is just a matter of opinion.

My main concern is that don't want my tenant to get ongoing hassle from the bailiff over their outstanding fees, but nor do i feel it correct to bend to the will of the bailiff and pay their charges for a fault caused by the council (and inclusive of a first visit charge which I don’t believe they did!).


Any help on the topic greatly received. Thanks

[zeke]

Hi all

Will try to be as descriptive as possible:

I am currently an overseas landlord (moved to the UAE with work and my home is rented out in London, UK). Last year i had a period when the property was vacant. The council was advised accordingly, along with a further notification of when a new tenant moved in. I was sent a bill for this period, but the original statement had the incorrect dates for when it was unoccupied. I called the council (twice) to try to rectify this (and try to pay the outstanding balance) and both times i was told that they needed to regenerate the bill so i could pay the correct outstanding balance. I also followed up with an email in May stating the same, to which i received no response.

I then suddenly discovered last week that a bailiff has contacted my old flat mate (who hasn't lived at my property for 6 years!) to tell them that in 24 hours they would be visiting my property for a removal of goods due to an unpaid council tax bill.

There is no power to break entry to any domestic property for the enforcement of unpaid council tax.

If a bailiff is contacting your flat-mates, the company is phishing.

The usual practice is the "Hit & Run" where they try to invoke telephone contact by leaving red demands hanging out of letterboxes at addresses the bailiff thinks is linked to the debtors or his whereabouts. This article explains more about Hit & Run: http://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Bai ... -Door.html

I immediately phoned the council, who say they have issued me various notices (which i haven't received because i don't live at the address and the council won't accept a foreign forward correspondence address).

That is often a complaint by expats, but always give your foreign address anyway. Bailiffs don't like them because their jurisdiction is limited to England and Wales.

They also claimed to have no record of me having contacted them twice before, nor a copy of the email i had sent back in May. Anyway, I paid the outstanding balance directly to them and I forwarded my email again, which they agreed to review. However, the council has now come back saying my email was sent after they had instructed the bailiffs, so they would not call them off despite me having paid the balance and provided evidence of me chasing.

Enforcement is legally impossible.

The debtor must be given notice, and that is impossible because they refused your foreign address. Your work contract proves that notice has not been given - section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978.

The bailiff can only take control of the debtors goods where he usualy lives or carries on a trade of business, section 14(6) of Scheudle 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.

In the meantime, I called the bailiff to relay that the council tax had been paid, but they claim that the council have just "made things worse for me" - i still owe them for their fees (GBP310 I believe)

The bailiff cannot enforce payment of fees because you are neither trading or living within the bailiffs Jurisdiction. In any case, the enforcement power ceassed to be excersisable because the amount outstanding has been paid, and that sum does not include fees.

In any case, the bailiff is unable to use the fee schedule that creates the £310 demand because you were not given notice, which is a statutory requirement under paragtaph 7.1 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. As that is a component of the "Schedule 12 enforcement provisions" Regulation 3 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 has effect invalidating all the fees.

and they would continue proceedings unless i pay. i have not seen any sight of a bill, but i asked the bailiff to give me a breakdown which apparently includes a charge for a "first visit" where they say they left a note, but the tenant has not received anything. In the end I had to hang up as the bailiff refused to back down, and the situation is left in limbo. My old flat mate has now contacted me again saying the Bailiff has called / text again saying the will be visiting the property in 24 hours.

Your flat-mate should take these precautions: http://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Pro ... Goods.html

I've advised the tenant of what has happened, and told him not to let the bailiff in if they visit. I have also researched my rights and understand that they cannot 'force' entry because it does not relate to income tax or a High Court order.

Bailiffs cannot break entry to any residential property in execution of a High Court writ of control. That power only applies to a writ of possession, evicting squatters etc.

I also don't have any worthwhile belongings in the flat except for some old furniture - all white goods are fixed and the TV etc is the tenant's. However i do feel bad that the tenant could be dragged into this, and wanted to check the following:

- Can the bailiff seize goods from the tenant to cover a debt owed (though paid!) by the landlord?

No, the law is paragraph 10 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.

- Does the bailiff have the right to pursue their charges, even though the council tax arrears have been settled by the landlord directly with the council?

No, the enforcement power has ended "ceased to be exercisable", Paragraph 6(3) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.

- is there anything i can do to get rid of the bailiffs now that the council has refused to recall them?

The council won;t recall ther bailiffs. Their efforts will come to nothing because you are off-jurisdiction. You don't have goods to the value, and the fees are invalid because you have not been given a Notice of Enforcement. This is a Notice of Enforcement: http://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Not ... ement.html

I also find it completely unacceptable that the council has been absolutely incompetent throughout the process which has led to this situation in he first place, but I guess that is just a matter of opinion.

My main concern is that don't want my tenant to get ongoing hassle from the bailiff over their outstanding fees, but nor do i feel it correct to bend to the will of the bailiff and pay their charges for a fault caused by the council (and inclusive of a first visit charge which I don’t believe they did!).

If your tenant is being harassed or pestered by bailiffs for money he does not owe, he can apply for an injunction. Here is how: http://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Inj ... liffs.html

If the bailiffs mtakes control of the tenants goods for money he does not owe, he can make an interpelader claim: http://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Int ... Goods.html

Any help on the topic greatly received. Thanks

[Riico]

Wow! Thanks for the really comprehensive response. That is so helpful!

Out of interest, is there a certain date that which their right to pursue fees will expire anyway? Such as 12 or 24 months from date of instruction from the council?

[zeke]

The right to pursue fees ends on the date the "amount outstanding" is paid or tendered to the council.

The statutory right to pursue the debt is 12 months from the date on the Notice of Enforcement. Regulation 9(1) of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013.

Councils contractually allow 90 days with an option to extend to 180 days if there is still a prospect of recovering the money.

[Riico]

Thanks. One final question - should the Notice of Enforcement come from the Bailiffs or the Council?

I definitely haven’t received anything from he Bailiff showing a first visit but the Bailiff was adamant that should “check with my mate” - I presume he means the tenant - as he left a message under the door.

Also, my old flatmate has confirmed that when he first called the number back to find out what it was about the Bailiff confirmed the address, so they definitely no the address - it isn’t just a “bit & run” tactic

[Syd Snitkin]

It comes from the bailiffs, sent to your present address. Seeing as you're in the UAE, they can't enforce anything - the council are aware of this and should stop the bailiff making a fool of themselves.

[zeke]

Also, my old flatmate has confirmed that when he first called the number back to find out what it was about the Bailiff confirmed the address, so they definitely no the address - it isn’t just a “bit & run” tactic

You need to get your tenant to stop ringing the bailiffs. That will encourage them to come round and harass the tenant.

The tenant gives an email with a notice under the Protection from Harassment Act, and keep a screenshot of the email recording the date and time it was given. http://nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Bailiff ... -Debt.html