PCN's dimissed in Guildford county court followed by DCBL visit

[dannny]

I rented a property between 9th January 2016 to 8th February 2017. The landlord provided a parking permit. Half way through the tenancy the parking company changed the permits but did not provide me with a new permit and subsequently gave me 10 parking tickets. In all photos I had continued to display the old permit. I was taken to court and the hearing was heard at Guildford county court small claims track on the 31/01/18. The judge dismissed the claim for various reasons including the claimant not being able to prove they had a contract with the management company for the block of flats and also no proof they had sent me a new permit and no reason to believe I would not have displayed the permit if I had been sent it.

I moved out of the property on the 8th of February 2017. After the case was dismissed I was under the impression that everything was resolved. Apparently not. Out of the blue today I had a visit from Gary @ DCBL, who let himself into my new address, with a high court writ saying if i did not pay him £2.5k he was going to take everything i had. I explained the situation but he was having none of it. I paid the money and he went on his way.

Now I am looking at the paperwork it appears that UK Car park management ltd may have claimed further tickets after I left the property and sent all mail to my old address. The high court writ enforcement address has the OLD PROPERTIES address where I have not resided for 14 months. I feel like I should have stood my ground and not paid anything and seen whether he was going to actually start taking goods. I feel like I have been duped by Gary but now it is done, I would prefer to try and get this resolved as quickly as possible.

Is it realistic that I can get the money back quickly?

[dannny]

I have tried calling the courts this morning to try and work out what is going on but apparently their computer systems are down, so not much help there.

[zeke]

You need to find out whether the enforcement power is a High Court writ, or a county court judgment.

Then, apply to stay the writ (or set aside the judgment) on the grounds you did not receive the notice of claim and have a reasonable prospect of a defense.

Do a search for yourself using Trace Online and that will get the claim number, then look at the fees DCBL charged you. If they are High Court fees, that means the bailiff attended with a High Court Writ.

Here is how to apply to stay a writ: http://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/St ... r-HCEO.htm

Once the writ is stayed, you get your money back from the bailiff company. If they refuse to pay you, then contact me and you can apply for a detailed assessment hearing to ask the court to scrutinise whether the bailiff is entitled to keep your money. The bailiff company pays the costs of a detailed assessment hearing.

[John The Baptist]

Did you recieve a Notice of Enforcement from DCBL?

If you are unsure, I would contact DCBL and ask them where it was sent to.

You need to also Google "court forms" and have a look at an N244. It is possible to set aside the judgement on the grounds that you have a realistic prospect of defending the claim and that you were unable to do so at the time because all paperwork was not sent to your last known address. Are you OK filling this in? You will need to include a witness statement with it as well as exhibits to support your application.

Your exhibits would include:

1. Evidence that UK Car Parks were aware of your last known address (you will have this through correspondence for the earlier hearing)
2. Evidence of when you moved to the new address
3. Evidence that you have reasonable grounds of defending the claim (this would be the judgement or any other paperwork connected to the other case).

Have a look and if you need any help, come back and ask.

[dannny]

Thanks for the advice. I have filed my N244 form with the county court business centre. The CCBC have explained my N244 will not be looked at by a judge for 4 to 6 weeks. I have also started the process of arranging a chargeback via my bank. Which leaves me wondering, if the chargeback is successful, there will potentially be a period of time where Gary and co may want to return to my property. Where does that leave me? The high court writ address is an address I have not resided at for 14 months. I assume that means DCBL have no right to take any possessions from a property that is not detailed on the writ?

[John The Baptist]

They can enforce at any address you live at, it doesn't have to be at the address on the writ. However, they must send you a notice of enforcement to where you live, they cannot send it to a previous address. Let's worry about that if you get your money back.

Write to DCBL asking for a copy of the notice of enforcement and also a breakdown of the fees charged, explaining why each fee was incurred.

[zeke]

Thanks for the advice. I have filed my N244 form with the county court business centre. The CCBC have explained my N244 will not be looked at by a judge for 4 to 6 weeks.

Make the application at the High Court in London. You get before a master the same day. Here is how:

http://nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Stop-Hi ... -HCEO.html

The high court writ address is an address I have not resided at for 14 months.

The writ proves you were not given a notice. If you have evidence of your current address, then you can have a detailed assessment hearing because the bailiff cannot recover fees.

[dannny]

Ok thank you. One other question. Are DCBL debt collectors or actual high court enforcement officers / bailiffs? What rights do DCBL specifically have?

[dannny]

From what I see they are not listed on the HCEO or bailiff registers

[Syd Snitkin]

They work as both bailiffs and debt collectors - when they act as debt collectors (who have no powers), they usually mislead people into believing they are acting as bailiffs. This includes adding a £75 admin fee that mirrors the £75 compliance stage fee.

They're not a member of the HCEOA - I doubt even they want them around. The register lists their employer as Direct Collections Ltd. Who visited you?

[dannny]

Gary from DCBL visited me. He did have a high court writ, albeit with an old address and my name spelled incorrectly. Does that mean he was definitely acting as a bailiff?

[dannny]

So if I go to the queens bench division and have the writ stayed in front of a master... I am going to assume that DCBL will not give me the funds back. What is the process with regards to a detailed assessment hearing in that circumstance?

[Syd Snitkin]

Gary from DCBL visited me. He did have a high court writ, albeit with an old address and my name spelled incorrectly. Does that mean he was definitely acting as a bailiff?

Ah, good old Gary. It's always Gary ain't it? One of the slimiest, deceptive mouth-breathers ever to have existed. He works on a self-employed basis for DCBL so is more driven for his commission, no doubt to pay for his online gambling. Wonder if his criminal record stopped them from actually employing him? He's on the register as Gary Paul Brown. DCBL must be getting sick of him - although seeing the behaviour on their TV show, perhaps not.

I thought you were going for the set aside rather than the stay?

On a side note, Wiggy Bohill has disappeared from the register.

[John The Baptist]

Do not go to the Queens Bench and do not go for a detailed assessment at this stage. You have already submitted an application to the county court and paid the application fee. There is no real urgency now as the debt has been satisfied and the bailiffs are gone. Provided you attached the witness statement and exhibits correctly, I anticipate that there is a good chance of a set aside.

The judgement was made in a county court and you need to challenge the county court. You do not need a detailed assessment as you are applying for the judgement to be set aside, which if successful will put paid to any fees in any case. At this point, we don't know what fees have been charged but seeing as it's Gary, it will likely to have been everything up to and including the sale fee.

Only if you fail in the set aside application need you worry about challenging the fees. For now, I would just write to DCBL advising that you have applied for a set aside but in the meantime, can they ensure that no camera footage taken by Gary is deleted as if the set aside fails, the footage will be required in order for you to challenge the fees. Also, ask DCBL to forward you a copy of the NoE that was sent and to inform you of the time and date that notice was given.

In this matter, Gary was acting as a bailiff.

[zeke]

For now, I would just write to DCBL

Experience has taught me never write to a bailiff company unless the CPR's require it, and even then it's from a solicitor acting on the record (and to rack up a bill).

Bailiff companies get letters from debtors every day. They are binned or lip service is played out.

advising that you have applied for a set aside

Never tell a bailiff company an application has been made. The writ is still in force until the court orders otherwise. The bailiff company will ambush the debtor before the application is granted.

but in the meantime, can they ensure that no camera footage taken by Gary is deleted ,

If the body-cam footage is needed to bring a claim, there is a procedure to apply to the court for the bailiff company preserve the footage and give it following a Standard Disclosure or Specific Disclosure order. Without this, the bailiff company will almost certainly destroy the footage if it can be used against them.

as if the set aside fails, the footage will be required in order for you to challenge the fees.

DCBL will not give it. Gary Brown for example, only gave an audio track to police when he was arrested for assaulting a debtor, but it was never known what happened, if it existed, to the video track.

Also, ask DCBL to forward you a copy of the NoE that was sent and to inform you of the time and date that notice was given.

The request should be to ask for the evidence the enforcement agent or his office kept a record of the time the notice was given by post.

One bailiff company in its defence exhibited a reconstructed Notice from a computer. It failed because it didn't show evidence it has been given to the debtor, or the enforcement agent keeping a record of the time. It might as well have been Photoshop.

[John The Baptist]

Experience has taught me never write to a bailiff company

I'm sorry Nigel. From where I'm sitting, it looks as if experience has taught you nothing and you are making the same mistakes over and over again.

Bailiff companies get letters from debtors every day. They are binned or lip service is played out

It doesn't matter, even if it is binned. Notice has been given that IF (and it's only an IF at this stage) a detailed assessment is required, the footage will be required. Why pay a solicitor to ask for something that may not be needed?

Never tell a bailiff company an application has been made. The writ is still in force until the court orders otherwise

One of your biggest problems is, just like Sheila Harding and Peter Bardsley, you continually fail to read and/or understand what is written. The three of you try the paitence of a saint with your appalling reading skills yet all three of you claim to be some kind of experts in reading up on the law. One of the most elementary requirements of a lawyer is to be able to read through and understand documents and statements at a very quick pace. You three are not at the races. In this case, the debt has been satisfied. The enforcement power no longer exists.

If the body-cam footage is needed to bring a claim, there is a procedure to apply to the court for the bailiff company preserve the footage and give it following a Standard Disclosure or Specific Disclosure order. Without this, the bailiff company will almost certainly destroy the footage if it can be used against them.

I've explained what standard disclosure is to you before. I'm not going to do so a second time. DCBL will release the footage if action has been started but the debtor must agree not to share the footage with anyone other than their lawyer.

DCBL will not give it.

Yes they will once action has started.

Gary Brown for example

That was an isolated incident. It is not for Brown to decide what, if anything is released, it is for his superiors.

The request should be to ask for the evidence the enforcement agent or his office kept a record of the time the notice was given by post.

No it shouldn't. Again, you display your inability to read and understand things. The time is incidental. More important is sight of the NoE to see the address it was sent to. It looks likely that it was sent to a previous address which is far more important than some pedantic argument over keeping a record of the time that notice was given.

[Syd Snitkin]

Regarding the set aside, should it be made clear that DCBL return the fees rather than the claimant? We had that problem before which allowed DCBL off the hook.

[dannny]

As things stand the debt has been satisfied but I am in the process of arranging a chargeback. IF the chargeback goes through, then I will have a period of time where DCBL may return until the judgment is set aside. In which case I will go to the queens bench to have the writ stayed. Seems like the best plan of action currently

[John The Baptist]

I've seen the lot now. It must make a change for this piece of sh%t to be a witness for the prosecution rather than being the accused.

https://twitter.com/PokerMan0977/status ... 5027493891

I'd wager that the debtor got off because Gaz wasn't being obstructed at all. He just called the police to try to force the debtor to pay.

Enjoy the sun Gaz. You don't get nothing for nothing in this life and one day you are going to pay with interest for all these bogus sale fees you've added.

PS Danny. Yes, what you're doing makes sense but be aware that carrying out charge backs does not attract sympathy from the courts. Nigel will probably tell you some cock and bull pipe dream but the fact of the matter is, doing a charge back won't help your cause. The way to approach it is to pay and reclaim.

[zeke]

https://twitter.com/PokerMan0977/status ... 5027493891

I see he still says he is from Crawley. I have been round to the address he gave to the court and the occupants never heard of him.

[John The Baptist]

I'd say he is in Crawley somewhere. Didn't his IP trace back to Crawley when he was posting on here?

My advice would be to never visit people on the back of reading their address on court documents. It could well be deemed as interfering with a witness which is quite serious.

[Syd Snitkin]

Don't they ask the accused to state their address?

[zeke]

He asked the magistrate that his address not be disclosed in open court because of members of 'beat the bailiff' in the gallery, but the magistrate said it must be given.

[Syd Snitkin]

And he gave a false one? You nawty bwoy Gawy.

[zeke]

Discussing a bailiff's home address isn't what this board is about. We know where Gary lives, what school he attended (it wasn't mainstream), his previous work history and what his parents have been through. I cannot disclose or discuss it because it was given to me by an official source. He might have moved since then.

We are only concerned with putting things right for debtors who have been wronged by unlawful bailiff action.

[John The Baptist]

The only person concerned about where he lives is you.

You turned up on his doorstep ffs.

[zeke]

I was instructed to.

[John The Baptist]

Nigel.

I know exactly how you obtained the address and I know you weren't instructed to visit him. I'm not going to go into details on here but seriously? "Instructed to"? in what capacity and why?

Didn't you do the same with another bailiff? Possibly one involved in the plane fiasco.

It is out of order to visit private homes like this. I would be furious if someone turned up out of the blue on my doorstep.

I'm no fan of Gary Brown but business has to stay as business. Turning up on his doorstep (or what you considered was his doorstep) on a Sunday evening (as it was) is so wrong in so many ways.

[zeke]

You were not there at Bromley Magistrates Court, so how would you think I know his address?

When a law firm instructs me as a process server to give a person a document, there is a procedure to be followed including making an affidavit of fact.

Service of documents can be any day of the week. But it was not a Sunday.

[Poker man]

Gentlemen,

Your comments do make for some amusing reading on a Sunday morning, but they're not always accurate.

DCBL will not give it. Gary Brown for example, only gave an audio track to police when he was arrested for assaulting a debtor, but it was never known what happened, if it existed, to the video track.

If you're talking about the Williamson case, I wasn't arrested at all and the recording was made from my dictaphone so I could back up my version of events. The Brown-Boateng case was recorded via JBW's own handheld device as they didn't issue their agents with BWV at the time. You will remember she lied about me assaulting her when the judge referred back to the transcript and she tried to backtrack.

And he gave a false one? You nawty bwoy Gawy.

Are you aware that people do occasionally move addresses? I lived in Sutton at the time of my appearance at Bromley Magistrates, but then moved to Crawley (where I still reside with my girlfriend and her children)

Enjoy the sun Gaz. You don't get nothing for nothing in this life and one day you are going to pay with interest for all these bogus sale fees you've added.

All of my attendances are recorded on BWV, so if someone isn't happy with any aspect of my visit, then they are welcome to submit a complaint to DCBL, who have a compliance manager dedicated to dealing with complaints. She reviews my footage and responds to the complainant, but in the three years I've been with DCBL I don't remember a complaint that's been upheld. There is a good reason for that and it's because I operate within the law, contrary to what you may believe.

Ah, good old Gary. It's always Gary ain't it? One of the slimiest, deceptive mouth-breathers ever to have existed. He works on a self-employed basis for DCBL so is more driven for his commission, no doubt to pay for his online gambling. Wonder if his criminal record stopped them from actually employing him? He's on the register as Gary Paul Brown. DCBL must be getting sick of him - although seeing the behaviour on their TV show, perhaps not.

What is your problem with me? We've never met and you've only ever heard the side of debtors who wish to discredit me? The Westbrooks' complaint was dismissed after my footage had been seen by the court. The judge actually commented on how polite and professional I had been, which is hardly like when "the Jews invaded Poland" as described by the complainant in his letter to the court.

You need to find out whether the enforcement power is a High Court writ, or a county court judgment.

Nigel, you should know that CCJ's are either enforced by County Court Bailiffs with a Warrant of Control or High Court Enforcement Agents with a High Court Writ. You already know that I don't enforce Warrants of Control.

The high court writ enforcement address has the OLD PROPERTIES address where I have not resided for 14 months. I feel like I should have stood my ground and not paid anything and seen whether he was going to actually start taking goods. I feel like I have been duped by Gary

You weren't duped, Daniel. Everything was recorded on BWV and you are free to submit your complaint if you're not satisfied with my conduct or the escalation of the case.


I'm happy to discuss things with you guys as I can justify everything I do. I already expect some of you will try to use my comments against me and that's fine as some (Syd Thompson) have ulterior motives and are intent on taking me down.

[zeke]

Welcome to the board.

When I am instructed by a solicitor to serve a document on a bailiff, the address I am sent to is the one on the application when he applied for his enforcement certificate.

If the bailiff is not there then I file a statement to the solicitor. They decide whether to do a trace, or proceed with the claim anyway.

DCBL cases tend to be detailed assessment hearings and the bailiff or his company doesn't need to be given notice.

That's a nice truck you have. Are there any others you chased on the roads lately?

[Poker man]

It wouldn't be very hard to trace me to my current address. I've been here for over 2 years and I have several lines of credit still active

[zeke]

You need to update court service.

I'm always hearing bailiffs lecture debtors about keeping DVLA up to date with their vehicle details. I find that funny because bailiffs try to use It as an excuse for failing on Paragraph 7.1 of Schedule 12.

[Poker man]

Have you seen my current bailiff certificate? I'm guessing you haven't as we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[zeke]

No. It might have been an old address.

Only a solicitor can get the information.