Hi, so yesterday I received two letters from Marston (Notice of Enforcement) informing me that a warrant had been issued (county court) for a penalty charge, Buslane use. Twice (same road) on separate occasions (months apart) around Nov. '16 and around the start of this year.
This is the first I've heard of this, literally nothing received from the council or county court for this. The car is registered to my Ltd company and the road is the rather infamous 'Buslane Shepherds Bush Road Southbound Offside' I have changed address so it's probable that the letters were sent to the old address, however nothing has been received since the updated address in June '17
I guess the large issue here is that I haven't heard anything so I wasn't able to appeal so I need to sort out Marston ASAP and then appeal...?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Get the PCN number and download a form PE3 and a PE2 late witness statement, and get them completed and sworn in. Then email them to tec@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk and that will stop the enforcement power.
You must include evidence of your change of address, and the court will roll back the PCN to the original bus lane fine and the bailiff's fees will be cancelled.
Do not respond to any offers from individuals contacting you over the internet to complete your appeals for a charge. You are more than capable of doing it yourself for free, but you will need to pay a fee when you get the forms notarised. Its about £5.
I know the buslane in Shepherds Bush well. I was nabbed in it several years ago, but I successfully appealed because the car in the photo wasn't mine. It was actually the car that was in front of me. The council was sloppy.
You must include evidence of your change of address, and the court will roll back the PCN to the original bus lane fine and the bailiff's fees will be cancelled.
Do not respond to any offers from individuals contacting you over the internet to complete your appeals for a charge. You are more than capable of doing it yourself for free, but you will need to pay a fee when you get the forms notarised. Its about £5.
I know the buslane in Shepherds Bush well. I was nabbed in it several years ago, but I successfully appealed because the car in the photo wasn't mine. It was actually the car that was in front of me. The council was sloppy.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Fabulous response, thank you
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Morning all, so the TEC finally processed the Out of Time Applications back in early November. The London Borough of Hammersmith then had 19 working days to file a response to my application. This time has now passed and I chased the TEC back in mid December for an update. Now that both the TEC and council have ignored the OOT application and my previous email, is there a legal ramification to this?
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
The law says the enforcement is suspended until the application has been decided. Paragraph 8.1 of Practice Direction 75 (under CPR 75 in the white book).
If a council "ignores" an appeal and continues with enforcement then it is liable for a claim for damages under Paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
If a council "ignores" an appeal and continues with enforcement then it is liable for a claim for damages under Paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Morning, so this popped up again today. I was rudely awoken by Marston with their 2 hour notice to remove the car. Naturally Hammersmith Council and the TEC had ignored my requests for info and I heard nothing via email or post. I sent them a final chase letter on early December 2017 after the Out of Time was processed early November 2017. I didn't have the energy to argue with Marston so have paid the fine with a view to arguing this with TEC & Hammersmith/Fulham Council and allowing them to instruct Marston to refund. The car, registered to the Ltd company was parked at the registered address however the company obviously doesn't own the land, nor do I personally. It's an apartment complex with a locked/electronic fob garage (communal) and the car was clamped in the allotted parking bay. Recorded the call with the bailiff who was happy with the logistics of the clamping, time given and non acceptance of a payment plan.
Other than emailing the TEC and asking "What the hell", any thoughts please?
Other than emailing the TEC and asking "What the hell", any thoughts please?
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
The notice of enforcement has a service life of 12 months. It appears enforcement took place after the lapse.
You can do a fee recovery together with damages from the council and the bailiff company jointly.
Also get the bodyworn camera footage. It they fail to produce then you can sue for damages. If they produce Ryan you can use the evidence. Create a free template letter and email here. https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dance.html
If you telephoned the bailiff company then get a copy of the call recording. https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dings.html
If the allotted parking bay was not your allotted bay then enforcement also fails on paragraph 14(6) of schedule 12 of the Tribunals courts and enforcement Act 2007
You can do a fee recovery together with damages from the council and the bailiff company jointly.
Also get the bodyworn camera footage. It they fail to produce then you can sue for damages. If they produce Ryan you can use the evidence. Create a free template letter and email here. https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dance.html
If you telephoned the bailiff company then get a copy of the call recording. https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Te ... dings.html
If the allotted parking bay was not your allotted bay then enforcement also fails on paragraph 14(6) of schedule 12 of the Tribunals courts and enforcement Act 2007
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Thank you. I have emailed through both requests, I assume I don't need to send recorded delivery these days, after sending the emails? I have also recorded the phone call myself to the bailiff via my computer. I arranged to view the info via the bailiffs mobile tablet, whilst the clamp was removed and noted the date of contravention was January 2017, the warrant of control is under my old address, something I questioned and was 'assured wasn't an issue at all!' by the bailiff. He rejected the request for a payment plan, due to the vehicle being worth more than the fine and thusly proving I had means to pay. The car was parked in the correct allotted bay for the apartment.
In terms of fee recovery with damages, how would I begin this please?
In terms of fee recovery with damages, how would I begin this please?
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
The GDPR doesn't require recorded delivery. It allows email, text message and even spoken request.
If you get a copy of the phone recordings and they don't marry up with your recordings, then the bailiff company might have a problem. Its the same with CCTV and bailiffs with body-worn cameras. I've hears some stupid excuses, such as the camera was smashed in a previous altercation with a debtor, and the bailiff switched off his camera. Both times the bailiff company was unable to defend the claim.
Therefore its become standard practice to get camera footage and phone recordings in all cases, it scuppers their defence or attracts a GDPR claim if previously-undisclosed footage appears as a defence exhibit.
If the warrant of control is at your old address then that proves the notice of enforcement was not given, and revokes the fees and charged taken or charged by the bailiff. Regulation 3 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014. Here is more about a detailed assessment hearing. You usually get your costs paid on an indemnity basis, about £3500 to about £8000 depending on the amount of wriggling by the bailiff company. If you do it yourself or are unrepresented, your costs are recoverable under CPR 46.5 and you typically get about £1500-£2500 depending on the judge that day.
If you prefer the comfort of bringing a simple claim in the small claims court to recover money taken, then here is how to bring a claim against bailiffs in the county court.
If you get a copy of the phone recordings and they don't marry up with your recordings, then the bailiff company might have a problem. Its the same with CCTV and bailiffs with body-worn cameras. I've hears some stupid excuses, such as the camera was smashed in a previous altercation with a debtor, and the bailiff switched off his camera. Both times the bailiff company was unable to defend the claim.
Therefore its become standard practice to get camera footage and phone recordings in all cases, it scuppers their defence or attracts a GDPR claim if previously-undisclosed footage appears as a defence exhibit.
If the warrant of control is at your old address then that proves the notice of enforcement was not given, and revokes the fees and charged taken or charged by the bailiff. Regulation 3 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014. Here is more about a detailed assessment hearing. You usually get your costs paid on an indemnity basis, about £3500 to about £8000 depending on the amount of wriggling by the bailiff company. If you do it yourself or are unrepresented, your costs are recoverable under CPR 46.5 and you typically get about £1500-£2500 depending on the judge that day.
If you prefer the comfort of bringing a simple claim in the small claims court to recover money taken, then here is how to bring a claim against bailiffs in the county court.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
So, Marston have exceeded their statutory time limit of 30 days and not provided any information and ignored 3 separate emails asking for body cam, telephone call recording and a separate request for all related paperwork.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
If Marston failed to comply with a GDPR request for bodycam, telephone calls and the Bailiff's ID and authority to enter premises (the enforcement power - warrant etco), then start a concern on the ICO website. If the ICO makes a finding in your favour then start a claim and exhibit the ICO resolution advisory.
When reporting a concern to the ICO, attach copies of the email requests for the data. Make separate concerns for each data, the bodycam footage, the telephone calls, and the bailiff's ID and warrant showing your name and address. The latter is under Paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007, but the name and address element of the warrant is GDPR.
Here is more about getting your data.
When you have the ICO advisory, here is how you bring the claim. It starts with a letter asking for payment and include your bank details and set a deadline. The GDPR does the rest.
When reporting a concern to the ICO, attach copies of the email requests for the data. Make separate concerns for each data, the bodycam footage, the telephone calls, and the bailiff's ID and warrant showing your name and address. The latter is under Paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007, but the name and address element of the warrant is GDPR.
Here is more about getting your data.
When you have the ICO advisory, here is how you bring the claim. It starts with a letter asking for payment and include your bank details and set a deadline. The GDPR does the rest.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Three separate emails have now gone to ICO. Worth starting Small Claims, or better to wait for the ICO? As always, thanks for the reply.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Wait for the ICO because you exhibit their resolution advisory in your claim. Its a 12-week lead time, but its better to wait before firing off court proceedings
You can send the Letter Before Action now detailing the grounds of the claim, amount claimed and your bank details for the to pay.
You can create a free Letter Before Action here.
You can send the Letter Before Action now detailing the grounds of the claim, amount claimed and your bank details for the to pay.
You can create a free Letter Before Action here.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
...thank you. So I guess the further question to that is, if I send a letter before action, to them, how to calculate the figure to include the unwarranted clamping (if indeed it was so, with the wrong address etc.) as such, probably best (as you obviously say) to wait for all the info and do one large claim letter to them, which could include time spent on various things in addition to the clamping and ICO issues.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
There is a procedure for working out the costs and damages but you cant start working them out until the date you send the Letter Before Action.
A typical claim for unlawful clamping on your driveway is £100 per day for the first seven days, then £50 a day thereafter. If the car is on a public road, it's £50 a day. Both are in addition to the cost of alternative transport costs or a rental car. If the car is used for work, then you can increase the sums to include loss of work.
If a transporter is used to collect a car after being towed, then the cost of the transporter is added. This can be expensive because transporters are often sent away by staff at bailiff compound which is charged to the creditor as an aborted collection plus the waiting time on the driver's tacho. They insist the debtor is present, so a taxi and a days work are added to the bill.
A typical claim for unlawful clamping on your driveway is £100 per day for the first seven days, then £50 a day thereafter. If the car is on a public road, it's £50 a day. Both are in addition to the cost of alternative transport costs or a rental car. If the car is used for work, then you can increase the sums to include loss of work.
If a transporter is used to collect a car after being towed, then the cost of the transporter is added. This can be expensive because transporters are often sent away by staff at bailiff compound which is charged to the creditor as an aborted collection plus the waiting time on the driver's tacho. They insist the debtor is present, so a taxi and a days work are added to the bill.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Morning, Marstons have responded "We do not hold any call recordings. I have viewed the footage captured by our agent, due to you not appearing within the recording we are unable to release footage"
They have not responded with any information request and paperwork relevant to the case. They have ignored a second email requesting this. ICO lead time is around 6 weeks from now, applied to them late January, so quite the wait.
They have not responded with any information request and paperwork relevant to the case. They have ignored a second email requesting this. ICO lead time is around 6 weeks from now, applied to them late January, so quite the wait.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
You can bring the action without the footage but it could undermine their defence if they produce it later in their evidence if it shows your property or goods.
You can file an online concern with the ICO stating the goods and the property are yours and you are the data subject. Bailiff companies are under a belief that only a person featured in the video is personal data and not the goods or property of that person. Make this clear in your ICO concern because the belief appears to be at odds with section 3(2) of the Data Protection Act 2018.
You can file an online concern with the ICO stating the goods and the property are yours and you are the data subject. Bailiff companies are under a belief that only a person featured in the video is personal data and not the goods or property of that person. Make this clear in your ICO concern because the belief appears to be at odds with section 3(2) of the Data Protection Act 2018.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Hi, the ICO still haven't responded and I'm holding little hope of them doing so. Marston have replied recently and have said that they do not hold a copy of the Warrant and that the original will have been sent to their client who should be able to supply it. They have also said there is no requirement for them to hold a copy of the Warrant and that it is sufficient for them to have been made aware that one exists.
Calls to their enforcement agent are not recorded & as I do not appear in the footage, I am not entitled to a copy of the body cam footage.
Calls to their enforcement agent are not recorded & as I do not appear in the footage, I am not entitled to a copy of the body cam footage.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
The ICO has a long wait time until your reported concern is assigned to an investigator. Open separate concerns online for each data request, the call recordings, the bodycam footage and the bailiffs identity and the enforcement power - the warrant
Their advice they do not need to show the warrant (the enforcement power) is not right. The law that requires its production on demand of the debtor is paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
Their advice they do not need to show the warrant (the enforcement power) is not right. The law that requires its production on demand of the debtor is paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Hi, in touch with an ICO officer, finally, they are looking into it but I thought I would share the text from Marston in their reply (finally) a few months ago:
"I am sorry you are unhappy that you have not received a response to your previous emails and
a full review has been carried out.
We act on behalf of the London Borough of Harnmersmith and Fulharn in the enforcement of a
Warrant of Control issued in respect of an unpaid Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)" The PCN was
issued January 2017 for being in a bus lane on Shepherds Bush Lane"
Our records confirm that you had submitted an out of time Witness Staternent to our Courts in
2017, but this was not accepted" Therefore, our client applied for a new Warrant of Control.
We do not hold a copy of the Warrant, however, the original will have been sent and our
ciient should be able to supply this to you. There is no requirement for us to hold a copy of the
Warrant and it is sufficient for us to have been made aware that one exists.
This was passed to us and a Notice of Enforcement was sent xx September 2018 giving you
until xx September 2018 to contact us to set up a payment arrangement. We heard nothing
from you and our enforcement agent attended on xx December 2018 and collected payment in
full.
Calls to our enforcement agent's mobile telephone are not recorded, therefore we cannot
supply a recording of the calls. As you do not appear in the footage, you are not entitled to
a copy of this.
Thank you for raising your concerns, however, from the information we hold, I arn satisfied the
correct process has been followed. If you would like to raise any specific points regarding the
account, then please provide full details so that an investigation can be carried out."
"I am sorry you are unhappy that you have not received a response to your previous emails and
a full review has been carried out.
We act on behalf of the London Borough of Harnmersmith and Fulharn in the enforcement of a
Warrant of Control issued in respect of an unpaid Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)" The PCN was
issued January 2017 for being in a bus lane on Shepherds Bush Lane"
Our records confirm that you had submitted an out of time Witness Staternent to our Courts in
2017, but this was not accepted" Therefore, our client applied for a new Warrant of Control.
We do not hold a copy of the Warrant, however, the original will have been sent and our
ciient should be able to supply this to you. There is no requirement for us to hold a copy of the
Warrant and it is sufficient for us to have been made aware that one exists.
This was passed to us and a Notice of Enforcement was sent xx September 2018 giving you
until xx September 2018 to contact us to set up a payment arrangement. We heard nothing
from you and our enforcement agent attended on xx December 2018 and collected payment in
full.
Calls to our enforcement agent's mobile telephone are not recorded, therefore we cannot
supply a recording of the calls. As you do not appear in the footage, you are not entitled to
a copy of this.
Thank you for raising your concerns, however, from the information we hold, I arn satisfied the
correct process has been followed. If you would like to raise any specific points regarding the
account, then please provide full details so that an investigation can be carried out."
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
They just gave a chronicle of the history of the case.
That doesn't comply with paragraph 26.
That doesn't comply with paragraph 26.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Agreed. What's the next step? ICO have sent an email asking for all the info between Marston and I, which was sent and not responded to. This is dragging out and I haven't even sent them a letter of claim yet...
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
You bring a claim in the small claims track for "material and non-material" damages for non-compliance with the GDPR.
In your letter, you must specify:
In your letter, you must specify:
- The amount they must pay.
Why they owe it,
How to pay
What will happen if they don't pay.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
ICO Finally responded:
I understand from the information you have provided, you have submitted SARs for body camera footage, telephone recordings and a copy of the warrant relevant to your case. You explain that you did not initially receive a response to your SARs but did receive a response letter dated XX March 2019. In this letter Marston apologise for the late response but confirm they are unable to provide the information you have requested.
Our view
I have considered the information available in relation to this complaint and I am of the view that Marston has not complied with their data protection obligations. This is because they did not respond to your request within the required timeframe.
However, Marston have explained that they are unable to provide a copy of the warrant as they do not hold a copy of it, they advise that their client should be able to supply it to you.
In regards to the telephone recordings, Marston have advised they do not record calls so are not able to provide this. Similarly, they explain that as you do not appear in the body camera footage you are not entitled to a copy. Please note, you are not entitled to the data of a third party when making a SAR, this is because this is not considered your personal data.
Without evidence which demonstrates that Marston are withholding your personal data we are unable to consider this matter further. However, I will write to Marston to remind them of their obligation to respond to SARs within the required time period.
I understand from the information you have provided, you have submitted SARs for body camera footage, telephone recordings and a copy of the warrant relevant to your case. You explain that you did not initially receive a response to your SARs but did receive a response letter dated XX March 2019. In this letter Marston apologise for the late response but confirm they are unable to provide the information you have requested.
Our view
I have considered the information available in relation to this complaint and I am of the view that Marston has not complied with their data protection obligations. This is because they did not respond to your request within the required timeframe.
However, Marston have explained that they are unable to provide a copy of the warrant as they do not hold a copy of it, they advise that their client should be able to supply it to you.
In regards to the telephone recordings, Marston have advised they do not record calls so are not able to provide this. Similarly, they explain that as you do not appear in the body camera footage you are not entitled to a copy. Please note, you are not entitled to the data of a third party when making a SAR, this is because this is not considered your personal data.
Without evidence which demonstrates that Marston are withholding your personal data we are unable to consider this matter further. However, I will write to Marston to remind them of their obligation to respond to SARs within the required time period.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
You can use the ICO letter to support a claim for damages, material and non-material damages for their failure to comply with the GDPR. If the camera footage was taken at your property or your car, then it's your data, unless the bailiff company can show it is somebody else's data.
If the footage is taken inside your property, you can apply to the court for the bodycam footage to be destroyed because it could be used to plan a burglary.
Here is how to bring the claim: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Ta ... Court.html
The bailiff company failed to comply with paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 which states the bailiff must show evidence of his authority to enter premises, the warrant of control.
I would need to seek advice myself on how to quantify your claim, but previously, I have seen round numbers put on claim forms and that amount been awarded against a bailiff company. I don't know how the solicitor arrived at the sum claimed.
For the failure to show evidence of the warrant or enforcement power, the claim is brought under paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. You will need to exhibit the ICO letter in your claim to prove the facts of your claim.
If the footage is taken inside your property, you can apply to the court for the bodycam footage to be destroyed because it could be used to plan a burglary.
Here is how to bring the claim: https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Ta ... Court.html
The bailiff company failed to comply with paragraph 26 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 which states the bailiff must show evidence of his authority to enter premises, the warrant of control.
I would need to seek advice myself on how to quantify your claim, but previously, I have seen round numbers put on claim forms and that amount been awarded against a bailiff company. I don't know how the solicitor arrived at the sum claimed.
For the failure to show evidence of the warrant or enforcement power, the claim is brought under paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. You will need to exhibit the ICO letter in your claim to prove the facts of your claim.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Ok, thanks for the reply. Shall I wait to hear from you then? I assume we need to agree on a figure before sending a letter of notification before claim? Also, not sure if I have mentioned this but I took a picture of the Bailiffs mobile tablet with the information on, the address is at my old address and not the new one, so what he's shown me so far is that they didn't have the authority to enter the premises, or rather clamp the car.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
If the warrant is the old address then you can appeal the bus lane PCN by completing a form PE2 and PE3. Here is how:
https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Ap ... liffs.html
A wrong address also revokes the bailiffs fees because its evidence the bailiff did not give a Norice of Enforcement.
The round numbers put on the claim form are plucked out of thin air and the solicitor let's the court use its discretion on setting the damages award for a breach of the GDPR.
https://www.nationalbailiffadvice.uk/Ap ... liffs.html
A wrong address also revokes the bailiffs fees because its evidence the bailiff did not give a Norice of Enforcement.
The round numbers put on the claim form are plucked out of thin air and the solicitor let's the court use its discretion on setting the damages award for a breach of the GDPR.
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
Thank you. So bearing in mind there is a court process and financial detriment to consider, do you provide a fee paid service to assist with this?
Re: Marston - Bus Lane (Shepherds Bush)
I am only a paralegal, but I can do referrals to solicitors if you want representation at court. jasonbennison1(at)gmail.com
I don't charge for referrals because I am paid by the solicitors firm out of the costs recovered from another party.
Parking appeals are free, and soon to be an online automated service. Similar to the current free N244 High Court writ services which is proving to be hugely popular with debtors wanting to stop bailiffs enforcing judgments.
Bailiff related proceedings (civil enforcement defence) paperwork is done in a factory in the Philippines due to high volumes, but it's not geared for GDPR due to low demand. I would have to case-build it manually and refer you to a specialised law firm practising in GDPR actions, however, bear in mind they want big-ticket value claims. A simple £5000 claim cannot be monetised making it unpopular with solicitors. They prefer getting bailiff redress work because bailiff companies and their insurers have deep pockets and yield high-value fee returns.
I don't charge for referrals because I am paid by the solicitors firm out of the costs recovered from another party.
Parking appeals are free, and soon to be an online automated service. Similar to the current free N244 High Court writ services which is proving to be hugely popular with debtors wanting to stop bailiffs enforcing judgments.
Bailiff related proceedings (civil enforcement defence) paperwork is done in a factory in the Philippines due to high volumes, but it's not geared for GDPR due to low demand. I would have to case-build it manually and refer you to a specialised law firm practising in GDPR actions, however, bear in mind they want big-ticket value claims. A simple £5000 claim cannot be monetised making it unpopular with solicitors. They prefer getting bailiff redress work because bailiff companies and their insurers have deep pockets and yield high-value fee returns.